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we can and do love them but we still point out the sin that is in their lives and destroying them. If a loved one of mine was a drug addict or alcoholic, I would love them no less but hate the behavior that they are addicted to. So goes the sin of adultery, fornication, or homosexuality
That's my point, we don't just sit idly by and watch a person self-destruct and never try to help them find the way out. Of course many people take our trying to point them to the Lord as judging them. If we don't tell them, not in an accusing way, but in a sincere loving way, then we aren't doing our jobs as christians. Paul said if any man be in Christ, he becomes a new creature, old things have passed away and behold, all things are become new. Are we still tempted by the same "old" things? Absolutely, but now that we have tasted a better way, we want to lay aside the old habits, and weights, because we want to please Christ who gave the ultimate sacrifice. He loves us, no matter what, and nothing we can do will make him love us more or love us less, but He hates sin, and requires holiness. Repentance means making a 180 degree turn from our former ways. We might try to convince others that it doesn't matter, that the Bible is myths or whatever, but in the final analysis, we are going to stand and give an account for our choices. and I believe that no matter how macho we may appear here, when we stand before Almighty God, we won't seem so tough.
(Had to bite my tongue at the URL - I have a dirty mind!)
For me, being gay was never a choice, just as much as being heterosexual was hardly a choice for many of you. Would, or could, you one day just "choose" to become homo? I doubt it -> oh, physically you could, but you wouldn't derive much pleasure from it, and some of you would most likely be revolted. However, perhaps with intense and overpowering "therapy" and persuasion/peer pressure, we could probably get some of you to become "ex-straight," much like you've won over our ex-gays.
But that having all been said, I totally dig what you're getting at. The Bible says (or doesn't, whatever you believe) being gay is wrong. That's your prerogative to believe, or not. I just really dislike when religion and civil matters mix. I can even sometimes understand why some religious people are vehemently against same-sex marriage; after all, marriage was YOUR institution and should have never become mixed up with the federal government.
What I can't, don't, and NEVER EVER will understand is when "Christians" lobby, push through, and ultimately vote for, as the majority, hate laws that strip away the rights of same-sex partners and their families, such as hospital visitation, ability to inherit without a will, the ability to make medical decisions if one's partner is indisposed, the ability to draw retirement and pension funds, the ability to file joint tax returns, etc. etc. etc. I was raised in a Christian home for many years and this, to me, is simply not good works. You can tell the true believers by their works, and these works rot to the depths of whatever hell you might believe in.
Hi i wanted to say a few words on this topic. I am a gay male I can't say i haven't tried to be straight for my family sake. But i found it discusting. I always have been gay. Infact i was watching a special on the brain Nova On PBS has proven that gay men and women has something diffrent in there brain from straight men and women. So yes a person is gay when there born. If they was straight and went gay they was just curiousity. Same as the other way around If they thought they was gay but found out diffrent later then it was just a curiousity. Know bi on the other hand probley have both of those changes in the brain if they can be happy either way. But know being gay is not a choice i hate it when people say that. In fact i told my preacher and she said "it was fine she has alot of gay friends". She said "we are all god children doesn't mater he loves us all". And i agree with her
First, which bible are we talking about, Living Bible, ESV, KJV, Net Bible, NIV and so forth. The literal from the Hebrew is "And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman." Now what does that mean? It means literally nothing unless it is interperted and that subjects it man's prejudices and follies. When the KJV was written was it worded the way we frequently see, because King James was bisexual and the committee that wrote the KJV wanted to make a political statement? And does it mean lesbians are ok? Does it only relate to ritual pagan sexual rites? Assume the common KJV translation - it only precludes certain sexual acts between gay men, not all and by no means love between men. It seems a bit shaky to condem an entire group of people on something so unclear.
I know in the Adventist church much was made of Sodom and Gomorrah...in Genesis 19 Lot has a male guest which later turns out to be an angel...the men of the town surround the house and ask Lot to bring this man out to them so they may 'know' him...which Lot says NO to...
Then my favorite part is chapter 8 where Lot offers up his two virgin daughters to the crowd...
SO am I to get from this reference that its wrong for two men to have sex but its OK to take these two virgin girls and rape them??
Some say the crowd in this story was bent on raping the man that was in Lots home and that is wrong...
OF course lets not forget how later after Lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt, Lots daughters got him drunk and had sex with him and got pregnant by him...what object lesson are we to gain from this story?? You can't take part of it and ignore the rest.
KJV translates "Bring them to us that we may know them." The Hebrew word meaning "to know" is used in the Bible over 900 times. Of these, only nine (9) times is it used in a sexual context. Perhaps it is not used in a sexual context, but in a more literal one, that is to ask them questions.
The story of David and Jonathan is one of the most homoerotic love stories there is. The Living Bible translation has them shaking hands which is a totally new twist; more traditional versions such as KJV say they kissed, wept until David exceeded. The Hebrew word is Gadal, which many think translates in a much more sexual way here as it does elsewhere.
I think it's quite clear that the Bible has a very unfavorable attitude towards homosexuality. This has never been a personal issue because I'm not gay but I think it's another example of how religion tends to promote a kind of conformity in every manner of human desire and behavior. Those individuals who are attracted to members of the same sex have suffered and been despised for centuries and we can thank religion for promoting this point of view. It's just my opinion but I think that there is a great variation in human desires and sexual feelings. The great majority of human beings are heterosexual which only seems natural because we have a need to keep our species alive. However, human beings are much more complicated than mice or antelope so there is a much broader spectrum of human sexuality that is not really understood. I don't mean to offend anyone but the Bible doesn't seem to be able to address modern issues that affect human beings such as sexuality. All it does is condemn a certain group of people whose behavior they don't understand.
I used to think the same thing...however I did some reading and I believe that traditionally homosexuality has been condemned by Christianity, I believe they interpret the bible the way they WANT to...
I have heard so many different ways of looking at the same passages in the bible and each one thinks they are right...I think the same is true of this subject...
Do a google search of homosexuality and bible...there are so many different takes on it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webster
KJV translates "Bring them to us that we may know them." The Hebrew word meaning "to know" is used in the Bible over 900 times. Of these, only nine (9) times is it used in a sexual context. Perhaps it is not used in a sexual context, but in a more literal one, that is to ask them questions.
I'm sorry, but to attempt to dazzle us with a poor attempt to justify the clear intent of the men of Sodom as simply "asking questions" is misleading and inaccurate.
One, there is more than one Hebrew word for "know." The most common is yada yaw-dah and it has a very wide range of meanings including a sexual nature, but nowhere is it defined as "to ask questions." It is used 873 to be exact.
Two, the context is clear as to the wicked intentions of the men of Sodom and their "desire" to "know" the two messengers. God prefaces His judgment of their destruction with, "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." (Gen. 13:13) Moreover, the New Testament agrees with God in the following "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)
Three, it is a sad case of spiritual blindness that the wicked men of Sodom could not even see the messengers for who they were. For they only saw them as "something to be desired."
Quote:
The story of David and Jonathan is one of the most homoerotic love stories there is. The Living Bible translation has them shaking hands which is a totally new twist; more traditional versions such as KJV say they kissed, wept until David exceeded. The Hebrew word is Gadal, which many think translates in a much more sexual way here as it does elsewhere.
We've heard this time and time again, and once again it's baseless. And again, misleading statements. The Hebrew word gadal gaw-dal' is used about 112 times and has a wide range of meanings. The 1 Samuel 20:41 passage used the word "exceeded" and is the only place to do so. It in no way implies any sexual nature, and to do so is both fallacious and blasphemous. It could just as easily have been translated grew, grew great, or magnified. The passage is simply stating that they both wept, but David wept more.
The sad fact is that people want to see this as a "homosexual" encounter which is totally false. David's heart was sensitive enough to have great love for someone of the same sex without it being sexual in nature. Which is something our perverted society seems to be lacking.
I would like to suggest that it be read in Hebrew and not translations. It is not a terribly difficult language once you learn the different script. Modern Hebrew is not much different than ancient Hebrew. One can become fluent in evening school after two to three years. Unfortunately in this forum, I cannot use a Hebrew keyboard.
Good point, I don't hate, shun or cast out anyone who is gay, but I do not condone their behavior. If being gay was not a choice God would never have said to stay away from it. If a person could be born gay the Bible, God's Word would not say it was wrong.
This is the sort of thing that gets me wound up about some Christians. They give gays a hard time by saying that homosexuality is a sin and they love to quote verses from Leviticus to prove that it's against their god's wishes but they conveniently forget the other verses in Leviticus where their god tells them not to wear garments of two different cloths, they overlook the verse where their god tells then not to cut their hair at the temples. They ignore the parts where their god tells them to kill just about everyone. If the verse in Leviticus is valid why aren't these and why don't you obey what your god commands?
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Ahh! I hear you shout. ...but that's in the old testament and those things were thrown out when JC arrived. Well isn't Leviticus in the old testament so anything in it regarding homosexuality being a sin should also have gone?
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