Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward? (hell, reincarnation)
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Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I find this quote quite odd.
I do not know why all sins are performed but I do know that humans do not generally do what does not reward them somehow.
If sin were to somehow harm us or not reward us then it is not likely that we would do them.
I know that the sins that I have done were done for some kind of benefit, reward or pleasure for me.
I have sinned and am not quite dead yet so the above quote may mean spiritual or moral death.
Yet in many discussions, I find myself, to my way of thinking, often times in a more moral position than many believers. Strange.
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This quote seems to say that we all sin and will all repent and all get to heaven thus eliminating that immoral construct called hell.
Please do not think that I wish to promote sinning. I do not. Except for small ones.
I do so, and think we have to, to make the above quote true and would suggest that, not if, but when you sin, make them small ones.
Regardless of this fact, I pose these questions to you.
Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Should we and do we all sin?
Is sin a requirement to enter heaven as the quotes above suggests?
Is this why God creates man with a sin nature that cannot be fought?
Is hell an immoral construct and thus non existing?
Your argument ignores the complex nature of the human psyche. I must presume that by "small sins" you are a small operator who limits his pleasures to dog fight organization. You must, however, be aware that others play in the big boy leagues and serial killing, serial arson and multi-billion dollar Ponzi embezzlment are just a few of the myriad ways man can 'sin'. Sin can indeed be fought and, again, you are failing to take the mental toughness of others into account. A reading of "Desiderata" by Max Ernst is in order.
H
Last edited by Leisesturm; 03-25-2010 at 10:59 AM..
Your argument ignores the complex nature of the human psyche. I must presume that by "small sins" you are a small operator who limits his pleasures to dog fight organization. You must, however, be aware that others play in the big boy leagues and serial killing, serial arson and multi-billion dollar Ponzi embezzlment are just a few of the myriad ways man can 'sin'. Sin can indeed be fought and, again, you are failing to take the mental toughness of others into account. A reading of "Desiderata" by Max Ernst is in order.
Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I find this quote quite odd.
I do not know why all sins are performed but I do know that humans do not generally do what does not reward them somehow.
If sin were to somehow harm us or not reward us then it is not likely that we would do them.
I know that the sins that I have done were done for some kind of benefit, reward or pleasure for me.
I have sinned and am not quite dead yet so the above quote may mean spiritual or moral death.
Yet in many discussions, I find myself, to my way of thinking, often times in a more moral position than many believers. Strange.
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This quote seems to say that we all sin and will all repent and all get to heaven thus eliminating that immoral construct called hell.
Please do not think that I wish to promote sinning. I do not. Except for small ones.
I do so, and think we have to, to make the above quote true and would suggest that, not if, but when you sin, make them small ones.
Regardless of this fact, I pose these questions to you.
Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Should we and do we all sin?
Is sin a requirement to enter heaven as the quotes above suggests?
Is this why God creates man with a sin nature that cannot be fought?
Is hell an immoral construct and thus non existing?
Regards
DL
most of what Jesus said was ment for the people of that time place and circumstance and most of it still holds true to today
i agree there is no eternal hell
however Jesus's words might have been "the wager of sin is repeated death"like the vedic literatures teach
it is due to our sinfull nature that we are not with God right now and have to live on the temporary material plane of existence
our original nature is pure eternal bliss-pure love
but because we accumulate karma we have to take birth on this plane until we become pure again
when Jesus said"he who is first will be last and he who is last will be first"-He could have been talkin about reincarnation which many people beleive He did teach until emperor constantine removed the teachings from the bible
but to get back to your original question-whats the wager of sin-well thats easy-"you reap what you sow"-karma-so whatever sin or crime that you commit the universe(God)has an equal punishment-same goes with pious deeds
most of what Jesus said was ment for the people of that time place and circumstance and most of it still holds true to today
i agree there is no eternal hell
however Jesus's words might have been "the wager of sin is repeated death"like the vedic literatures teach
it is due to our sinfull nature that we are not with God right now and have to live on the temporary material plane of existence
our original nature is pure eternal bliss-pure love
but because we accumulate karma we have to take birth on this plane until we become pure again
when Jesus said"he who is first will be last and he who is last will be first"-He could have been talkin about reincarnation which many people beleive He did teach until emperor constantine removed the teachings from the bible
but to get back to your original question-whats the wager of sin-well thats easy-"you reap what you sow"-karma-so whatever sin or crime that you commit the universe(God)has an equal punishment-same goes with pious deeds
Thanks for this.
I guess that makes you about a 1/4 Christian.
So you think that there is some God out there making sure that we get our just punishment.
I have no particular beliefs about what becomes of the phenomenon of my consciousness after the death of my body. Maybe my consciousness is contingent on the continuation of my brain, maybe it isn't.
As for this current life, I find that heaven and hell exist within me as a result of my own choices, perceptions and awareness. I've created hell for myself and did not like it. Much of that hell was a result of the relentless and ignorant pursuit of pleasure. Attempting to experience instant gratification leads to misery such as in the case of addiction, eating disorders, a fixation on acquiring more and more material wealth, and other obsessions with chemical rewards that are ultimately unsatisfying.
On the other hand, when I've experienced heaven it has generally resulted from a state of mind in which I accept life exactly as it is and I'm not self-focused. Appreciation of simple things, enjoying the companionship of loved ones, savoring food instead of shoveling it into our pieholes... Mindful living leads to more of heaven and less of hell.
Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is within you" and I agree. If heaven is within us, then it stands to reason that hell resides in the same place: our minds.
I have no particular beliefs about what becomes of the phenomenon of my consciousness after the death of my body. Maybe my consciousness is contingent on the continuation of my brain, maybe it isn't.
As for this current life, I find that heaven and hell exist within me as a result of my own choices, perceptions and awareness. I've created hell for myself and did not like it. Much of that hell was a result of the relentless and ignorant pursuit of pleasure. Attempting to experience instant gratification leads to misery such as in the case of addiction, eating disorders, a fixation on acquiring more and more material wealth, and other obsessions with chemical rewards that are ultimately unsatisfying.
On the other hand, when I've experienced heaven it has generally resulted from a state of mind in which I accept life exactly as it is and I'm not self-focused. Appreciation of simple things, enjoying the companionship of loved ones, savoring food instead of shoveling it into our pieholes... Mindful living leads to more of heaven and less of hell.
Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is within you" and I agree. If heaven is within us, then it stands to reason that hell resides in the same place: our minds.
Perhaps.
Regards
DL
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