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And yes all those things you have listed, have to be considered in any statement on what, where, when and why....all possibilities are to be put on the table!
And the Beastiality one, is a sound one, if we take all the other stuff we have here and now, depicting animal human hybrids due to beastiality...
Cause that is closer to some truth than we evolved from apes.
It is too big a step for me to believe in evolution from ape.
Maybe we Deevolve into Apes....now that is something I can believe in...cause this world is spinning backwards to my mind...
Have you even read the multipe posts I and others have written telling you it is physically impossible for humans to breed with animals and create half-human half-animals? Yet you ignore it, and continue to spout madness. IT CAN'T HAPPEN!!!!!!
Luckily we don't have to devolve into apes because we already are apes.
See the family resemblance yet? We look so similar becased we both came from the same prehistoric ancestor but followed different evolutionary paths over millions of years. We have warehouses of fossil proof, not to mention genetic studies to back it up. You have a book that has been translated, copied, changed, rearranged, deleted from and retranslated over and over and over.
I suppose we can be agnostic about the stories of Hanuman (actually, he was king of the monkeys, all monkeys, not half - human, and Ganesh was not half elephant through evolution or even bestiality (though the Minotaur was) but was the result of a rather remarkable head transplant.
The operative matter is the hard evidence and myths can try to jump on the bandwaggon to gain some reflected credit. It's better than going into purblind denial.
hanuman and his species were more human than animal they talked like us and wore clothes and stuff
The problem of "missing links" will not go away.
The gaps are far too many for a few bones to successfully overcome.
Have you seen these fossils? What convinces you that they are authentic?
Remember "Piltdown Man?"
I've mentioned this little fellow a few times before on these forums, even in this thread. Apparently no creationist have bothered to check it out.
1) Plitdown man fakes were discovered precisely by the Scientific Validation process, not by educated theists. Science is self-monitoring, always. Check out room temperature fusion as another example. So what we do find to be true or credible, you can take to the bank.
2) The Missing Link theory has completely gone away. Hold on to it as some magical disproof if you wish. We'll ignore you. Given that evolution is not obligated to provide neatly arranged and complete, authorized "collector sets" of all Transitionalsâ„¢, we have nonetheless found entirely accurate means of at least placing what we have found, all corroded and damaged and crushed, into a reasonable and logical chronology.
The old Missing Link hypothesis, some imaginary half man, half-ape, has been long abandoned since it's inception in late 1800's British Museum Club rooms ("I say, ewld Chep! Any good Missing Link finds of late? "), and like other outdated ideas which science has agreed on, this one's been replaced by such spectacular methods as DNA gene sequencing, mtDNA tracing and hyper-accurate isotopic dating.
It's OK though. Please.. do continue to arrange the deck chairs on your mental Titanic.
Have you even read the multipe posts I and others have written telling you it is physically impossible for humans to breed with animals and create half-human half-animals? Yet you ignore it, and continue to spout madness. IT CAN'T HAPPEN!!!!!!
Luckily we don't have to devolve into apes because we already are apes.
See the family resemblance yet? We look so similar becased we both came from the same prehistoric ancestor but followed different evolutionary paths over millions of years. We have warehouses of fossil proof, not to mention genetic studies to back it up. You have a book that has been translated, copied, changed, rearranged, deleted from and retranslated over and over and over.
I have read many things telling me many things...and I believe in what I know as being done today, and was as it is written of Yesterday (History)
And this is not only in scripture, it is on a number of mediums from our past.
So what is one to believe?....
Is it physically impossible to concieve life by way of cross breeding?
Maybe in the past time...when things were young and under developed in their evolution forums...as they claim evolution is a slow long process...etc...they have to adapt to certain climates and conditions over time....seeing as humans were having sex with animals (Historically speaking from many different mediums/sources) Then we can assume that at that time it was possible!
And because we are not in that time line of history any more...the past.... to debate the validity of it as yeh or neh with science to process the data needed to confirm or denie missing....We have to leave that door open to a possiblity of validity.
You can write all you want about now...and what is not like it was before now as assumption...but what was before?...is before now...and what is now is not before...but after!
God changed things...so it would not happen anymore!!!!...after the fact that it did happen,...could be so....for why would it be in the Bible if it were not so?.. and those who still do?..sex with animals still does happen...people have sex with animals...and it is still done now....why?
Well that all has to do with the defilers...the opposers...the anti or negitive to God....wanting to enter the kingdom through inbreeding into other forms, to hide the evil spirit of that defiler....
And still they do not see,hear, or believe what God said... or change their tunes, because it is not right...and we have moral codes to speak to them...but they do not listen!
Now there are many writings about that very subject...maybe you should read em...eh?
In any case, what I said, is writen history like I said....and so it has place on the table of reason, logical truths of the past!..and should not be pushed aside by fools thinking it is physically impossible!
Humans are not suppose to have sex with animals according to scripture and GOD....but they do!
So what is impossible, unthinkable, or wrong, or in error...continues!
Don't tell me it aint so!
And if one finds a mutant...or somehow altared states occur with one subject, as like a flaw or fluke of nature...and a human finds such a one, and has sex with it...and it does concieve a offspring.....what would you say then?
And if one finds a mutant...or somehow altared states occur with one subject, as like a flaw or fluke of nature...and a human finds such a one, and has sex with it...and it does concieve a offspring.....what would you say then?
Possiblities are endless!
Sir Les
I asked you to find me verifiable example of one earlier (and no, fossil bones don't count, the devil might have planted them do deceive believers. )
Anyway, this seems to come down to the belief that god can do whatever he wants whenever he wants. That leads us to the same tired, old creationism arguments that frankly I'm sick of. But you would at least have to admit there is a possibility god created man by evolving him from primordial ooze over billions of years if you believe god can do whatever he wants on his own time.
Now Chango... surely you don't mean He did this by some logicalrationalstep-wise process utilizing DNA's innate and stable abilities do you? Surely a God wouldn't do it that way would He? He'd do it by irrational, implausible means of course, in order to maintain the mystery! And the fear.
I could accept the very real possibility that God "designed" the DNA system as a means to evolve life here. After all we now know, incontrovertibly, that's exactly how it works. But the bigger problem, outside of DNA and Evolution, is that all the other things He's supposed to have done do not pan out. There's way more proof He doesn't exist than there is that He does. In fact, there's no proof at all that He does exist! None.
So we look to rational alternatives. We don't try (or need to) to fit the evidence to the theory. In fact, being ever so rational, we fit the theory to the evidence. Not a bad approach, since it happens to work...
It's quite odd, really, that the fundy Christians don't try to claim Evolution as God's inerrant design and intended methodology. (Though that would be giving in after all these years of stubborn denialism..) The Catholic Church, a little splinter organization to be sure, does exactly that. They, after all, don't want to look stupid...
Instead, the fundies have cooked up the vastly incomprehensible and "fails at every turn" Intelligent Design argument, again twisting and re-defining the readily available evidence to fit their new-found theory. It's equally odd that Intelligent Design was not mentioned in the inerrant, all-knowing bible. (Of course, that's because it's only existed for the past 20 or so years. It's an obvious modern construct of denialism) The bible also forgot to mention molecules, dinosaurs, the solar system and universe, black holes, nuclear power, evolution, geophysics and on and on. Where are the prophecies and claims about those key aspects we now know to exist?
Now Chango... surely you don't mean He did this by some logicalrationalstep-wise process utilizing DNA's inate abilities do you? Surely a God wouldn't do it that way would He? He'd do it by irrational, implausible means of course, in order to maintain the mystery! And the fear.
I could accept the possibility that God "designed" the DNA system as a means to evolve life here. After all we now know, incontrovertibly, that's exactly how it works. But the bigger problem, outside of DNA, is that all the other things He's supposed to have done do not pan out. There's way more proof He doesn't exist than there is that He does. In fact, there's no proofs that He does exist! None..
A lack of proof doesn't constitute proof, but it sure doesn't help. I am confident it is possible to rationally disprove any religion, but it still doesn't prove there isn't a god or afterlife, just that people have it wrong. In fact, a higher power and an afterlife are the ONLY common threads in religions worldwide.
But if there is a god, he/she/it is the ultimate absentee landlord at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
So we look to rational alternatives. We don't try (or need to) to fit the evidence to the theory. In fact, being ever so rational, we fit the theory to the evidence. Not a bad approach, since it happens to work...
It's quite odd, really, that the fundy Christians don't try to claim Evolution as God's inerrant design and intended methodology. (Though that would be giving in after all these years of stubborn denialism..) The Catholic Church, a little splinter organization to be sure, does exactly that. They, after all, don't want to look stupid...
I think our fundamentalist friends are a bit overrepresented in this forum. I wonder how many Americans honestly believe the world is only 6000 years old and the biblie is word for word accurate?
Is it physically impossible to concieve life by way of cross breeding?
Humans are not suppose to have sex with animals according to scripture and GOD....but they do!
So what is impossible, unthinkable, or wrong, or in error...continues!
Possiblities are endless!
Sir Les
True. All true. There is an example: the mule. (which is a sterile offspring in every case. The chemistry of the parents' DNA does not match up so it's an automatic extinction, and it also never happened in nature for that very reason). Also, in case you weren't aware, humans having sex with animals is called "perverse", though I wouldn't discount it in biblical times; a very lonely goatherd or shepherd... "Bbbbaaaahhhhhaaaa!" ("The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want. for anything!"). But as a source of new species? Not hardly!
Most efforts at artificial cross-breeding do, in fact, result in either a non-viable fetus or a sterile offspring, aka the mule. Never any recorded ape-men, and especially never an entire population of them! In rare cases, the liger/tigon or the recently described grolar bear, are unique and extra-ordinary examples because the parents do not generally or usually live in the same ecosystem and would not come across each other, certainly not in an amorous setting.
Now, if these offspring were viable, and did offer some distinct and measurable advantage, why yes; they could and probably would become a new species. Remember, Sir Les, we define "species", not you. You guys would alter the definition every Sunday to avoid the truth, so it's best left to the professionals!
As an example of a non-species variant of a type or race, humans have and do often cross-bred within a species to gain a new coat color variant, or a longer-legged race horse or a larger rose bloom. This is not speciation but rather just us tinkering with already existing variants to "select" for a larger output of "the red one" or "the longer-legged one" we've already seen on limited occasions.
In fact, extreme rarities as a grizzly-polar bear cross do not occur in nature, and do not form all-new species. So sorry to bust another of your implausible bubbles, but it's simply not how things work. We know how things work; it's called natural selection, genetic drift and several other sub-elements of Evolution.
Stop denying the obvious. Try to sit up and learn a bit here, and not just desperately deny it all! Frankly, it's kinda embarrassing to watch your feeble denialist efforts!
I think our fundamentalist friends are a bit overrepresented in this forum. I wonder how many Americans honestly believe the world is only 6000 years old and the biblie is word for word accurate?
More than half the people in my brilliant state (Texas) think dinosaurs and humans walked the planet at the same time. There's quite a few people out there who believe such things, I'm afraid.
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