Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Faith is not knowledge, but is in fact the opposite; belief without knowledge.
It's actually totally the opposite of it.
A more logical and smarter way is to become a believer and then use science, logic, reason and knowledge in an attempt to figure things out.
Why?
Because our lives are not long enough to wait for science and knowledge to figure out EVERYTHING for us.
Scientific facts extracted from the scripture is not what faith is about. These are only small signs for us to ponder. Faith is primarily about knowing your creator, understanding the purpose of your life, believing in the here-after and getting prepared for it.
Science may not prove any of these, and science has tendency to keep exploring and helping us believe in new discoveries. Who knows a million years from now science starts to agree with the existence of a supreme being - but guess what? It will be too late for you.
In the end, in my opinion it's a lot more intelligent to be a believer and excel in scientific knowledge to find the reason, rather then waiting on science to tell us the reason before we become believers.. Our lives are simply not long enough to figure out everything.
A more logical and smarter way is to become a believer and then use science, logic, reason and knowledge in an attempt to figure things out.
Why?
Because our lives are not long enough to wait for science and knowledge to figure out EVERYTHING for us.
Scientific facts extracted from the scripture is not what faith is about. These are only small signs for us to ponder. Faith is primarily about knowing your creator, understanding the purpose of your life, believing in the here-after and getting prepared for it.
Science may not prove any of these, and science has tendency to keep exploring and helping us believe in new discoveries. Who knows a million years from now science starts to agree with the existence of a supreme being - but guess what? It will be too late for you.
In the end, in my opinion it's a lot more intelligent to be a believer and excel in scientific knowledge to find the reason, rather then waiting on science to tell us the reason before we become believers.. Our lives are simply not long enough to figure out everything.
Sorry, but I don't think this post is a very good example of being more logical and smarter.
A more logical and smarter way is to become a believer and then use science, logic, reason and knowledge in an attempt to figure things out.
This makes no sense to me. If I am to believe in something without using logic, knowledge or reason, how do I pick what to believe? Do I have to believe everything? I will agree with you that most people choose theif faith or even lack thereof without much thinking. Maybe they are raised in a particular tradition, maybe it just never seemed important to them, whatever, but is that really a good way of determining at a fundamental level the nature of reality? Because my parents believed? Because my culture was overwhelmingly whatever religion?
It seems to me that using logic, knowledge and reason to determine what is true is not a bad way to go about it. The alternative is a crapshoot, rolling the dice and hoping that whatever unfounded belief you choose is the right one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll
In the end, in my opinion it's a lot more intelligent to be a believer and excel in scientific knowledge to find the reason, rather then waiting on science to tell us the reason before we become believers.. Our lives are simply not long enough to figure out everything.
OF course we will not figure out everything. We have very small minds compared to the universe. But If we are to simply believe first and them use logic and reason to try to support that belief, why would atheism be any less valid than theism? You have chosen one out of millions of god concepts to believe, I have chosen one less...
This makes no sense to me. If I am to believe in something without using logic, knowledge or reason, how do I pick what to believe? Do I have to believe everything? I will agree with you that most people choose theif faith or even lack thereof without much thinking. Maybe they are raised in a particular tradition, maybe it just never seemed important to them, whatever, but is that really a good way of determining at a fundamental level the nature of reality? Because my parents believed? Because my culture was overwhelmingly whatever religion?
It seems to me that using logic, knowledge and reason to determine what is true is not a bad way to go about it. The alternative is a crapshoot, rolling the dice and hoping that whatever unfounded belief you choose is the right one...
OF course we will not figure out everything. We have very small minds compared to the universe. But If we are to simply believe first and them use logic and reason to try to support that belief, why would atheism be any less valid than theism? You have chosen one out of millions of god concepts to believe, I have chosen one less...
-NoCapo
No. You start with believing that God is the creator of everything. Then you use scientific knowledge to understand how God has created everything. Yes, you will never figure out everything but when you start off with denying God and wait for science to prove it to you in lab that God exists then you will lose because your life is too short for science to figure it out.
Yours and my scientific knowledge does not hold a candle against Einstein.
And even he admits that THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE.
Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, [Bthere remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious. [/b]
Last edited by june 7th; 05-20-2014 at 09:03 AM..
Reason: Red is reserved for mod cuts within posts. Any other color is okay. Thanks!
No. You start with believing that God is the creator of everything. Then you use scientific knowledge to understand how God has created everything. Yes, you will never figure out everything but when you start off with denying God and wait for science to prove it to you in lab that God exists then you will lose because your life is too short for science to figure it out.
Yours and my scientific knowledge does not hold a candle against Einstein.
And even he admits that THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE.
Sorry to pile on, but that's irrational almost to the point of being gibberish.
And yes, Einstein believed in god, but his heir apparent Stephen Hawking now convincingly argues, "One can not prove that god does not exists, but science makes god unnecessary."
Ultimately, god is a useless, pointless idea. Probably always has been, probably always will be.
Sorry to pile on, but that's irrational almost to the point of being gibberish.
And yes, Einstein believed in god, but his heir apparent Stephen Hawking now convincingly argues, "One can not prove that god does not exists, but science makes god unnecessary."
Ultimately, god is a useless, pointless idea. Probably always has been, probably always will be.
I would agree with Hawkins if science actually finds a way to avoid death. Untill then I will stay as a believer that we will see God after we die.
Why? It makes so much more sense not to.
Back to square one.
Nope, it's not back to square one. You decide not to believe then its your call. You have a free will and free choice to make until you die. After that, we will see whether your call was right or wrong.
Nope, it's not back to square one. You decide not to believe then its your call. You have a free will and free choice to make until you die. After that, we will see whether your call was right or wrong.
But that isn't limited to just Atheists. Every religion makes different god claims, so being a good Muslim will not help you at all, if Protestant Christianity is true. Likewise, worshipping Jesus as God is liable to get you in trouble with both the Jewish and Islamic concepts of God. And pretty much everyone is in trouble if H.P. Lovecraft stumbled upon the truth and the best we can hope for is that we are eaten first when the Great Old Ones awake...
So, in the face of countless God concepts, many of which are mutually exclusive, it is not an irrational position to withhold belief pending evidence, and hope that if there were a God, it would be ok with that. It is at least no worse a position than latching on to one God concept to the exclusion of all others with no evidence....
I am merely describing the characteristics of pretty much every atheists I've encountered. If that insults you then prove me wrong. Approach the conversation with a more friendly tone for a change instead of mocking me. I put for a challenge to show me one example where you agreed with a Christian in a debate. Just one from ANY Christian. Surely, not every Christian is wrong 100% of the time. To believe this is the epitome of arrogance.
I did and you poo-pooed it, so I see no reason why anyone else should submit to your demands, especially since you obviously have no intention to participate in any debate. I provided the one point where I agreed with a Christian in a religious debate, simply because that is where every Christian argument ultimately leads. I agree that "belief in God requires faith" is a cop-out, but only for the Christian side.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
