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Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
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I'm just curious. I'd like to hear from those who, lead a fundlementalist life at one point (living like say a Pat Robertson) however, are no longer like that, but still have productive and generally happy lives.
I used to be a fundlementalist and evangelical Chirstian quite a while ago. While I still believe I have a relationship with God, I for a few reasons, gave up on that lifestyle and have never really embraced it sense. The way they dictate on 10% of your money going to the Church, no premartial sex (which is hard for me since I really don't believe that I am ever going to marry again, that is not by choice), separating yourself from certain groups, basically hating gay people (hate the sin but love the sinner just is not realistic and I am 110% hetro) and blindly supporting the Republican Party and Bush, are all reasons why I'm just not interested in going back there. However, my life has basically been a living hell since then (talking a lonnnng time ago). The fundelmentialists say that God does things to get your attention. I wonder if he will allow all this stuff to happen until I return to that lifestyle again (in other words, if this punishment for turning away). Does anyone else have similiar experiences that they think about? Phil Jackson (Lakers coach) was raised a Preacher's Kid and was really into that up until college. Now he's into Zen and Budda, that does not seem to hurt his life (at least on earth). Evander Holyfield was into the church and Christianity like I was, however a big time womanizer. Still, God "let him" have millions and have a successful boxing career. I mention that part, since, in spite of the way I was, trying to be a strict Christian, I struggled big time with reading the Bible daily (don't have the attention span), sex and giving up 10% of my money to the church.
I felt since I falied in those parts, it hurt my walk with God. At that same time, though, I saw two big time potheads in my church, who were blessed big time, in relationships and jobs.
On top of that, Rachel Maddow (MSNBC and Air America host), used to be a fundlementalist in high school. Now she's agnostic, but still productive and seemingly happy (for sure moneywise, rich).
Thanks
I know that, but does he "kick your ass" to get one's attention, to get them to come "home"?
God knows exactly where we are in our journey and precisely what it will take to get our attention. So be alert, notice if any of God's methods are happening in your life. Ask Him what He wants to tell you and then listen, not just to hear, but to obey
How can he punish you without interfering with your free will? How can he "show" you something without violating your free will? In what capacity can he put an obstacle in your path without forcing you to violate your free will? In what capacity can he change the circumstances of something to benefit you without violating you or another person's free will?
Analogously, if you are driving down a highway with three lanes and you occupy the middle lane with nothing in front of you and all of a sudden a semi-truck appears right in front of you (an obstacle, if you will) at the behest of God you are forced to make a decision. Turn to the left lane. Turn to the right lane or barrel straight into it. He has intervened in your life to the point that you must make a decision implemented by this newly found obstacle that he has apparently forced upon you. He has also violated the driver of the semi-trucks' free will by altering his actions and reactions upon being placed in the middle of the highway.
How can anything, whether it be a slight nuance or very big event be considered the work of God if you have free will? How can things change in your life due to the works of God? You do not have free will if God intervenes in your life because every action must require a subsequent reaction. Even if those events lead you to turn away from God, you are doing so on accord of decisions made by those interferences in which you are compelled to make a choice.
If, for example, you feel that losing everything you own is a trial by God then the subsequent events leading up to losing everything you own must also be put in motion and place by God. This means that the bankers decision to foreclose on the home must be intervened by God, the decision of your boss to let you go must have been intervened with by God, the decision of the company to let the boss know that he must let someone go must be at the behest of God and the economic crisis causing the company to tell the boss to let you go so you can't pay the bill on the home and thus the banker tells you they are foreclosing means that everything must have been at the hands of God. Keep in mind - that is if you feel these are trials by God.
Take any event in your life, any event at all that you may feel could be a blessing or a "trial" by God and ask yourself if it could have happened without violation of you or someone else's free will. Could events that happened been able to happen if they were indeed "trials" or "blessings" without violating free will?
Could an event such as 9/11 been interfered with without violating the free will of the terrorists? No. Because it would mean that either God would have to reach into their mind, scramble their brain, and change their opinion, or he would have had to assemble a team of people that just so happened to make the "right" decision that day to examine their luggage a little better, ask them a few more questions at the ticket counter, etc...
Therefore, if we are to live in a completely free will world than I don't feel that a God would intervene for the good or the bad and all miracles as well as "trials" are simply and prudently coincidences. If this is incorrect and God does intervene and performs miracles as well as trials than we do not have free will but merely the suggestion of it. If we only have the suggestion of free will and God does indeed interfere on both ends of the spectrum, than I find him to be repugnant and salaciously horrible for allowing the things in this world that have happened to occur.
Thus, I think it's with a grain of salt that any person, believer or non-believer, should claim that they have been interacted with on a deistic level to claim that something profound has happened while simultaneously claiming free will. I don't think you can have free will both ways. I don't think it's logical to say that God intervenes but you also have free will.
read your post loved it.
whatever we learned as kids sticks with us.
its part of your core values. you will have a hard time shaking that.
however, same as me you might have found as i have, that what people teach and what the bible teaches are not always the same. jesus was not married in fact many bible characters were not. primative christianity is ascetic.
as to buddism, zen is near and dear to me. i practice a christianity that is very eastern.
so all that works for me.
i dont look to the people in the church but the doctrine itself-- much of which is useful and helpful to me.
i am not sure what you consider backsliding. you mean against your own core values? that will always cause torment.
The problem with most fundamentalist beliefs is that they limit God. And placing limits on that which is supposed to be infinite presents problems, yes? These belief systems humanize God, who is supposed to be omnipresent, omniscent. They like to pay lip service to those concepts but they don't really live it.
If you step back a bit, and study where xtianity came from, who Yaweh is, and study other world religions, it brings it all into a whole new light. Don't put limits on divinity. "God" is a metaphor for something we can't really understand, or grasp. All definitions are man-made. Look for new ways to explore the eternal. You've already taken the first step ;-) And no, it's not backsliding, it's spiritual growth.
Man is not punished for his deed, but by his deed. If The God was unhappy with you, he would just zap you out of existence. He is the loving father who always cares for his children. They may go astray, (that's free will), but he is always ready to welcome them back home.
The punishing God is a mind control mechanism to keep you in church and the collection plate full. If you follow the Ten Commandents, you will please God. If he did not expect you to make mistakes and seek your own path, he would not have offered forgiveness to all His children. Get rid of the guilt and hate no one.
As for hating gays or anyone, you can read in the Bible: (sic: If man be born a enuch, then let him live his life as such.) A enuch is a being who prefers his own gender. Kings of old used to place them in care of their harems because they would not have to worry about them having sex with their concubines. The kings often went in to them and had sex with them. Man was created an androgynous being from the beginning. It was not a 'rib' that God removed from Adam's side, it was the female essence, which is "TI" in the Sumerian language. It has been misrepresented since that time.
First of all, The Adam was created on the Spirit level. In the Bible, in regard to Adam it states: ..."He made man in the form of male and female until the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon him (Gen. ii. 21). The Holy One then separated them and having clothed the latter in a form most fair and beautiful brought her to man, as a bride is adorned and led to the bridegroom. Scripture states that He took one of the sides or parts (of the androgynous form) and filled up the place with flesh in its stead. In a very ancient occult book we have found it stated that what God took from the side of Adam was not a rib but Lilith, who had cohabited with him and given birth to offspring. She was however an unsuitable helpmeet for Adam and therefore Scripture states, 'But for Adam there was not found a helpmeet for him' (Gen. ii. 20). After the disappearance of Lilith and Adam's descent into the world plane of existence, then it was, as stated, 'The Lord God said, It is not good that man should be alone, I will make him a helpmeet for him.'"
DNA often goes astray, even in today's world.
Last edited by Teocka; 02-20-2009 at 04:00 PM..
Reason: To correct errors
Backsliders have turned from God, so he's no longer there to protect them or help them when problems occur. Backsliders are not being punished from God. When bad things happen it is often the consequence of poor decision making, or of others that want to harm you. This, in turn, may lead one "back home".
God is a God of forgiveness. He will forgive you over and over if you admit to your error and ask for forgiveness. We all fall short of the glory of God. We all make mistakes. If you let him back into your life, he will be there for you.
Last edited by Southernkomfort27; 02-20-2009 at 04:29 PM..
Reason: typo
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God does not punish
