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Two kinds of metaphysics, life positive vs life negative, or optimistic vs pessimistic.
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Originally Posted by Vic235
If your life is about to get together with your God, why do you live? Isn't it religious view that after you're dead you gonna see your God?
I would invite you to think of the two kinds of metaphysics, life positive and life negative, or in other more concrete in a way words, optimistic metaphysics and pessimistic metaphysics.
In an optimistic metaphysics, the whole universe, the whole totality of existence has order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose.
In a pessimistic metaphysics, there is nothing of order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose in existence whatever.
Take it from there.
If I may continue, most of mankind from clear uncluttered reasoning comes to the idea of an optimistic metaphysics, which is that of theists.
That need not be religion, just rationality.
And the way I see it atheists betake themselves to a lot of a kind of forced quasi or pseudo logic-magic juggling of words and concepts, to come to a pessimistic metaphysics, which puts blind chance (no order, no intelligence, no beauty, no purpose) in the place of God.
In order to deprive themselves of the hope of life after death this side of the grave.
Of course at the moment of death they can congratulate themselves of being stubborn to the end, denying themselves any hope post death, that is some feat of perseverance.
I suspect that meaning is given to a life in retrospect. while alive, most of us are too caught up in the day to day dealings. How many good deeds did I perform, unasked? Did I think kindly about others. Were other lives enriched by being in contact with me. How often was I "the friend" when someone else really needed one. I have a goal, I set it for myself. Every day I try to make one person smile. I have found that the simplest gestures of common courtesy work well.
I would invite you to think of the two kinds of metaphysics, life positive and life negative, or in other more concrete in a way words, optimistic metaphysics and pessimistic metaphysics.
In an optimistic metaphysics, the whole universe, the whole totality of existence has order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose.
In a pessimistic metaphysics, there is nothing of order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose in existence whatever.
Take it from there.
If I may continue, most of mankind from clear uncluttered reasoning comes to the idea of an optimistic metaphysics, which is that of theists.
That need not be religion, just rationality.
And the way I see it atheists betake themselves to a lot of a kind of forced quasi or pseudo logic-magic juggling of words and concepts, to come to a pessimistic metaphysics, which puts blind chance (no order, no intelligence, no beauty, no purpose) in the place of God.
In order to deprive themselves of the hope of life after death this side of the grave.
Of course at the moment of death they can congratulate themselves of being stubborn to the end, denying themselves any hope post death, that is some feat of perseverance.
Ryrge
If you believe your life's goal is to be united with your God (as you stated previously) -- is this positive or negative in your opinion? Isn't there an easier way to achieve that goal?
(I did not make any statement on the matter -- there is no my words about it)
I'm an atheist and I don't believe in metaphysics of any sort. I don't think atheists in general do either. But I do have a healthy respect for good ol' physics.
My life need not have any overarching "meaning" bestowed upon it by any supernatural entities. To live well and do no harm to others is enough.
I would invite you to think of the two kinds of metaphysics, life positive and life negative, or in other more concrete in a way words, optimistic metaphysics and pessimistic metaphysics.
In an optimistic metaphysics, the whole universe, the whole totality of existence has order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose.
In a pessimistic metaphysics, there is nothing of order, intelligence, beauty, and purpose in existence whatever.
This is a common accusation, that a rational worldview lacks all those things. The fact is that it is not true. There is order, but the order of physics, there is intelligence, but the intelligence that we know of, not one that we imagine, there is beauty, but the beauty is what it is, not an advertisement for some postulated maker. There is perhaps not pupose, but frankly who needs someone planning our lives for us?
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Take it from there.
If you don't mind, I must take issue with the perjorative 'pessimistic metaphysics'. This is the fallacy known as 'poisoning the well'. I would prefer to call it rational metaphysics as opposed to irational metaphysics, rather than optimistic.
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If I may continue, most of mankind from clear uncluttered reasoning comes to the idea of an optimistic metaphysics, which is that of theists.
That need not be religion, just rationality.
Indeed, but rationality does not lead to theism. Nor is rational metaphysics cluttered. It is theism that is..well, I'd not use the term cluttered rather than obscurantist. Rationality uses the mental tools of logic. Theist apologetics works by misusing them. I already pointed out the use of the logical fallacy of disambiguation (1) as a way of obscuring the issues. For example, rather than use sound logic and evidence, your post does an ad hominem attempt to discredit the method and motives of atheism or the rational worldview.
And here's more of it below.
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And the way I see it atheists betake themselves to a lot of a kind of forced quasi or pseudo logic-magic juggling of words and concepts, to come to a pessimistic metaphysics, which puts blind chance (no order, no intelligence, no beauty, no purpose) in the place of God.
In order to deprive themselves of the hope of life after death this side of the grave.
Of course at the moment of death they can congratulate themselves of being stubborn to the end, denying themselves any hope post death, that is some feat of perseverance.
Ryrge
We can hardly expect a fair deal from a theist. But then, atheists sometimes represent theists as only worshipping out of fear. Stil, I can say that discussion will show which (theist or atheist) uses "forced quasi or pseudo logic-magic juggling of words and concepts," and which uses correct logic in order to arrive at a conclusion which is inescapable - that there is no logical reason to believe in any god . And that nothing to do with stubborn -ness or self - congratulation, and everything to do with not being able to maintain Faith in a concept that has no good logical or evidential support.
But at least I tank you for not trotting out the 'deathbed conversion' scenario, so favoured by theist apologetics.
(1) Poisoning the well (disambiguation). Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a logical fallacy where adverse information about a target is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that the target person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem, and the term was first used with this sense by John Henry Newman in his work Apologia Pro Vita Sua.[1]
The origin of the term lies in the ancient practice of pouring poison into sources of fresh water before an invading army in order
I'm an atheist and I don't believe in metaphysics of any sort. I don't think atheists in general do either. But I do have a healthy respect for good ol' physics.
My life need not have any overarching "meaning" bestowed upon it by any supernatural entities. To live well and do no harm to others is enough.
Yep. To address this idea of optimistic metaphysics (theism) it is arguable whether having a god plan our lives for us is so wonderful or not. I suppose it can be considered optimistic to see the glass as half full (the saved will go to heaven) rather than half empty (the rest will go to hell). After all in some cases, pessimism ('we are surely going to get an outbreak of the pest, we'd better get vaccines ready') may be better than optimism. ('don't worry, it probably won't happen') but the main question is whether it is a waste of one's life believing something that has no good logical or evidential support?
It is possible to argue that at least the believers are happy but that just isn't good enough for those who consider that it is important that what they believe has better groundings than Faith.
What it comes dow to is therer must be room in this world for those of us who cannot Believe and see no good reason why they should, to live their lives without having other people's faith rammed down their throats.
I think that non-Muslims do not know the purpose of life because Islam set us the goal of life, but it is worship of one God Sunday where he said God (created the jinn and mankind except to worship) and worship we have in Islam has a meaning and a broad and comprehensive no worship is prayer and fasting, but rather is Broader and broader and include all walks of life worship Sleeping, eating, marriage, worship worship worship and hiking peek boys and Wales</SPAN>
[CENTER]ISLAM and the AIM of LIFE[/CENTER] What is your purpose in life? What is the rationale behind our life? Why do we live in this life? These questions frequently intrigue people who try to find accurate answers. People provide different answers to these questions. Some people believe the purpose of life is to accumulate wealth. But one may wonder: What is the purpose of life after one has collected colossal amounts of money? What then? What will the purpose be once money is gathered? If the purpose of life is to gain money, there will be no purpose after becoming wealthy. And in fact, here lies the problem of some disbelievers or misbelievers at some stage of their life, when collecting money is the target of their life. When they have collected the money they dreamt of, their life loses its purpose. They suffer from the panic of nothingness and they live in tension and restlessness.
[CENTER]Can Wealth Be an Aim?[/CENTER] We often hear of a millionaire committing suicide, sometimes, not the millionaire himself but his wife, son, or daughter. The question that poses itself is: Can wealth bring happiness to one’s life? In most cases the answer is NO. Is the purpose of collecting wealth a standing purpose? As we know, the five-year old child does not look for wealth: a toy for him is equal to a million dollars. The eighteen-year old adolescent does not dream of wealth because he is busy with more important things. The ninety-year old man does not care about money; he is worried more about his health. This proves that wealth cannot be a standing purpose in all the stages of the individual's life. Wealth can do little to bring happiness to a disbeliever, because he/she is not sure about his fate. A disbeliever does not know the purpose of life. And if he has a purpose, this purpose is doomed to be temporary or self destructive. What is the use of wealth to a disbeliever if he feels scared of the end and skeptical of everything. A disbeliever may gain a lot of money, but will surely lose himself.
[CENTER]Worshipping Allah as an Aim[/CENTER] On the contrary, faith in Allah gives the believer the purpose of life that he needs. In Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah. The term "Worship" covers all acts of obedience to Allah. The Islamic purpose of life is a standing purpose. The true Muslim sticks to this purpose throughout all the stages of his life, whether he is a child, adolescent, adult, or an old man. Worshipping Allah makes life purposeful and meaningful, especially within the framework of Islam. According to Islam this worldly life is just a short stage of our life. Then there is the other life. The boundary between the first and second life is the death stage, which is a transitory stage to the second life. The type of life in the second stage a person deserves depends on his deeds in the first life. At the end of the death stage comes the day of judgment. On this day, Allah rewards or punishes people according to their deeds in the first life.
[CENTER]The First Life as an Examination[/CENTER] So, Islam looks at the first life as an examination of man. The death stage is similar to a rest period after the test, i. e. after the first life. The Day of Judgment is similar to the day of announcing the results of the examinees. The second life is the time when each examinee enjoys or suffers from the outcome of his behavior during the test period. In Islam, the line of life is clear, simple, and logical: the first life, death, the Day of Judgment, and then the second life. With this clear line of life, the Muslim has a clear purpose in life. The Muslim knows he is created by Allah. Muslims know they are going to spend some years in this first life, during which they have to obey God, because God will question them and hold them responsible for their public or private deeds, because Allah knows about all the deeds of all people. The Muslim knows that his deeds in the first life will determine the type of second life they will live in. The Muslim knows that this first life is a very short one, one hundred years, more or less, whereas the second life is an eternal one.
[CENTER]The Eternity of the Second Life[/CENTER] The concept of the eternity of the second life has a tremendous effect on a Muslims during their first life, because Muslims believe that their first life determines the shape of their second life. In addition, this determines the shape of their second life and this determination will be through the Judgment of Allah, the All just and Almighty. With this belief in the second life and the Day of Judgment, the Muslim's life becomes purposeful and meaningful. Moreover, the Muslim's standing purpose is to go to Paradise in the second life. In other words, the Muslim's permanent purpose is to obey Allah, to submit to Allah, to carry out His orders, and to keep in continues contact with Him through prayers (five times a day), through fasting (one month a year), through charity (as often as possible), and through pilgrimage (once in one's life).
[CENTER]The Need for a Permanent Purpose[/CENTER] Disbelievers have purposes in their lives such as collecting money and property, indulging in sex, eating, and dancing. But all these purposes are transient and passing ones. All these purposes come and go, go up and down. Money comes and goes. Health comes and goes. Sexual activities cannot continue forever. All these lusts for money, food and sex cannot answer the individual's questions: so what? Then What? However, Islam saves Muslims from the trouble of asking the question, because Islam makes it clear, from the very beginning, that the permanent purpose of the Muslim in this life is to obey Allah in order to go to Paradise in the second life. We should know that the only way for our salvation in this life and in the hereafter is to know our Lord who created us, believe in Him, and worship Him alone. We should also know our Prophet whom Allah had sent to all mankind, believe in Him and follow Him. We should, know the religion of truth which our Lord has commanded us to believe in, and practice it … Those in search of truth Who have an open mind and heart, Islamic Education Foundation Welcome You. Objectives: - To Convey the message of Islam To Educate Muslims about Islam To keep in close contact with new Muslims. Activities: Offering Courses and presenting lectures about Islam in several languages. Teaching Islam and Arabic. Teaching new Muslims to receive the Holy Quran. Helping Non- Muslims embrace Islam and complete the required procedures
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Two kinds of metaphysics, life positive vs life negative, or optimistic vs pessimistic.
