Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My son rents a condo in LV. His 6 mo lease is up in Jan. 2 weeks ago, a notice went up stating the condo was sold in a short sale and he had 3 days to move. The "new' LL came by to check the condition of the place and gave my son until this weekend to move. Now the "old" LL says he wasn't aware that anything had been finalized (hence no notice given to my son from him). By the way, old LL lives out of state.
The old LL wants to sell the appliances that he says are his, so he wants to send someone over to get them. The new LL says they belong to him now and he wants to come by and put new locks on the doors to keep everything intact (the new LL apparently doesn't have keys). He also tells my son, if anything is missing other than my son's things, he's holding my son responsible.
What should my son do? Let the new LL change the locks, or let the old LL take the appliances? Could he really be held liable by the new LL for property that may belong to the old LL? Can he ask the new LL to see the sales agreement?
My son rents a condo in LV. His 6 mo lease is up in Jan. 2 weeks ago, a notice went up stating the condo was sold in a short sale and he had 3 days to move. The "new' LL came by to check the condition of the place and gave my son until this weekend to move. Now the "old" LL says he wasn't aware that anything had been finalized (hence no notice given to my son from him). By the way, old LL lives out of state.
The old LL wants to sell the appliances that he says are his, so he wants to send someone over to get them. The new LL says they belong to him now and he wants to come by and put new locks on the doors to keep everything intact (the new LL apparently doesn't have keys). He also tells my son, if anything is missing other than my son's things, he's holding my son responsible.
What should my son do? Let the new LL change the locks, or let the old LL take the appliances? Could he really be held liable by the new LL for property that may belong to the old LL? Can he ask the new LL to see the sales agreement?
First thing he should do is get a shotgun and announce he will shoot the first SOB he finds in his house without permission.
Only kidding. But that would be within his rights.
Basically his lease is good until January 2. No one has any right to do anything to him until that date. And, if a normal lease, there is likely a clause that says they have to give him 30 days notice to end the lease. So he may actually be OK for a bit after January 2.
If you wnat to know who actually owns the joint send me a DM with the address and I will try and run it down.
He should do absolutely nothing without a court order. And if he gets one that interferes with his rights he should run right down to the court and get it fixed.
The best thing here is a lawyer but that is probably impractical as to the time scale and the money involved.
I would also think he should get straight who is going to give him back his security deposit.
Note that I would not be surprised to see the new landlord bust it open and change the locks. Sounds like that kind of operator. So make sure he has a copy of the lease in his possession outside the house. If he is home or someone is just call the cops. They won't interfere but they also will make the new LL go away without an eviction order.
Don't let anyone take anything. Call the cops if needed. He is in no position to sort who owns what. Let the landlords fight it out.
Eventually he should force this thing to an eviction hearing and go to court to get his security deposit back. He probably won't any other way.
All of this presumes he has not failed to respond to any paper work sent to him...if he has though it is probably still salvagable.
A lease is a lease. And even a foreclosure does not immediately evict the tenant.
I've been reading up pretty extensively on the laws surrounding this due to my interest in buying properties where I may have to evict existing tenants similar to your son's situation.
Interestingly enough, there are quite a few renter protections in place for this, but honestly I couldn't find any that would apply to a house sold in a short sale. There is specific protections provided by NRS chapter 40 and Obama's "Helping Famlies Save Their Homes" act that protects a renter during a foreclosure (specifically under trustee sale) and provides them a minimum of 90 days (but they must continue to pay rent to the new owner), but I don't think they apply to a home that was sold in a short sale. I think it would be very important to determine if it was sold as a short sale or a foreclosure sale. Your son should be asking for a copy of the deed or trustee deed to prove this person did buy the property and under what circumstances. Most likely this was a foreclosure or trustee sale since it doesn't sound like the old owner is cooperating with the new owner. Foreclosure/trustee sales occur without any cooperation of the old owner. Short sales occur with the cooperation of the old owner.
I am not an attorney, but I read over NRS 40.255 and the way I read it, if it was purchased as a short sale then the new owner would be able to post a 3 day notice to quit and if you son didn't leave he could then file for unlawful detainer and continue the eviction process and get your son removed fairly quickly.
It is also my understanding that when the house is sold, unless specified otherwise in a contract, then all fixtures (things physically attached to the home) go with it, which would include built in microwaves, I believe range/stove is included as well.
Personally I wouldn't let anyone take anything or re-key anything. After establishing there is a new legal owner, the first thing your son should do is attempt to negotiate cash for keys with the new owner. Offer to leave the premises within two weeks for $1,000 or something along those lines. Tell the new owner he needs the cash to pay for moving expenses. Any investor purchasing homes is expecting to have to pay cash for keys, but of course you don't offer that up front.
The whole landscape changes and everything tilts significantly in favor of your son if the new owner purchased the home via trustee sale. If you DM me the property address, I can tell you if that was the case.
No matter what, negotiating cash for keys is in everyone's best interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macontamty
My son rents a condo in LV. His 6 mo lease is up in Jan. 2 weeks ago, a notice went up stating the condo was sold in a short sale and he had 3 days to move. The "new' LL came by to check the condition of the place and gave my son until this weekend to move. Now the "old" LL says he wasn't aware that anything had been finalized (hence no notice given to my son from him). By the way, old LL lives out of state.
The old LL wants to sell the appliances that he says are his, so he wants to send someone over to get them. The new LL says they belong to him now and he wants to come by and put new locks on the doors to keep everything intact (the new LL apparently doesn't have keys). He also tells my son, if anything is missing other than my son's things, he's holding my son responsible.
What should my son do? Let the new LL change the locks, or let the old LL take the appliances? Could he really be held liable by the new LL for property that may belong to the old LL? Can he ask the new LL to see the sales agreement?
I believe the terms of the lease should be honored. However there are alot of dishonest operators in this town. I would contact an attorney or Legal aid and fight this out.
I do believe that a written lease with the former owner must be honored by the new owner. Not positive though. I do know thats the case in California, but not sure about Nevada.
The cash for keys is an interesting idea, esp if there is a current written lease in place. FWIW, I'd ask for much more than $1K.
I'd be interested for anyone to post an NRS (not because I don't believe, but rather I'd like to know) that would indicate the lease would stay valid passing between owners in a conventional or short sale. NRS chapter 40 does outline is this and the specifics of the rules for passing between owners of a foreclosure only.
It it my understanding that for a foreclosure sale, Obama's "Helping Families Save Their Homes" law actually takes precedence since the laws are more favorable to the renters. Some of the rules for a foreclosure sale include:
- Renter can stay in the home until the expiration of their lease IF the lease was signed prior to the notice of the default being filed AND they are not related to the owner of the property AND they continue paying their rent to the new owner AND their rent amount is "market rent" (whatever that means) AND the new owner is purchasing the home as an investment (not as their primary residence)
Depending on which of those "AND"s are not met controls what happens otherwise. Generally speaking the tenant can still get 90 days in most circumstances, but they must continue to pay the rent amount in their lease to the new owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG72
The cash for keys is an interesting idea, esp if there is a current written lease in place. FWIW, I'd ask for much more than $1K.
If the current lease only has a month left anyways, I don't think you'll get a lot of money from the investor. Pretty much the maximum most investors will pay cash for keys is 2 months of market rent for the type of property they are evicting you out of since that should cover first month and deposit at a new property.
Also keep in mind if you're evicted, even if it is by the new owner, that will show up in public records searches when applying for any other tenancy. That is a big red flag, so you really don't want to be evicted.
I'd be interested for anyone to post an NRS (not because I don't believe, but rather I'd like to know) that would indicate the lease would stay valid passing between owners in a conventional or short sale. NRS chapter 40 does outline is this and the specifics of the rules for passing between owners of a foreclosure only.
It it my understanding that for a foreclosure sale, Obama's "Helping Families Save Their Homes" law actually takes precedence since the laws are more favorable to the renters. Some of the rules for a foreclosure sale include:
- Renter can stay in the home until the expiration of their lease IF the lease was signed prior to the notice of the default being filed AND they are not related to the owner of the property AND they continue paying their rent to the new owner AND their rent amount is "market rent" (whatever that means) AND the new owner is purchasing the home as an investment (not as their primary residence)
Depending on which of those "AND"s are not met controls what happens otherwise. Generally speaking the tenant can still get 90 days in most circumstances, but they must continue to pay the rent amount in their lease to the new owner.
If the current lease only has a month left anyways, I don't think you'll get a lot of money from the investor. Pretty much the maximum most investors will pay cash for keys is 2 months of market rent for the type of property they are evicting you out of since that should cover first month and deposit at a new property.
Also keep in mind if you're evicted, even if it is by the new owner, that will show up in public records searches when applying for any other tenancy. That is a big red flag, so you really don't want to be evicted.
Westie. I think the problem is that a short sale is simply a sale...and then you get into the order of liens on a property. This is the old RE common law. The foreclosure outranks the lease. But a new purchase does not.
As far as I know a normal lease remains in force across any sale. The one exception is a cancel on sale clause in the lease.
I would be skeptical of any key money in this case but it can't hurt to ask. This LL is already playing free with the law. I don't even think a three day notice is legal in such circumstance. Note though I suspect you need to answer it legal or not...courts grind on whether on a good or bad mission.
I would also be somewhat skeptical that a short sale occurred without the old landlord's knowledge. Virtually impossible. He had to sign the deed etc. So it may be that we are dealing with a foreclosure rather than a short.
I guess this is an area I'm just not familiar. I assumed a rental contract is between the landlord personally, and the renter, not the property itself and the renter. Thus if the landlord sells or loses the property then he would be in breach of contract due to not being able to fulfill his contractual obligations as landlord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
Westie. I think the problem is that a short sale is simply a sale...and then you get into the order of liens on a property. This is the old RE common law. The foreclosure outranks the lease. But a new purchase does not.
Yeah you got it. It is in fact another of those things than run with the land. You are renting some of that bundle of right known as property.
Covers an amazing breath...for instance in much of London virtually nothing is owned fee simple. Everything is on 50 or 100 year leases. Some similar goings on in places in Hawaii. And locally some of the residences on Mount Charleston are Forest Service leases.
Can get to war footing. There were a great set of houses on the beach in Orange County on long term leases that ended up in a 20 year war when the leases were cancelled. And a whole mess of the homes in Huntington Harbor had docks on the Harbor where the water was natural...and that violates the CA constitution. They are now leased I believe.
A co-worked left work in a hurry because her daughter called to say a man just left the house after posting a 3-day notice... I told her they are using strong-arm tactics in the hopes she will just leave and told her what I would do.
To make a long story short... she negotiated leaving in 60-days with a full security deposit return, not having to pay for last months rent and $2,000 for moving. She still had 8 months left on her lease.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
