Electrical Outlet Issue, what should I expect LL to do (apartment, tenants)
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So I moved into an apartment in a converted 1906 house last month. Love it. One of the main reasons I chose this place was newer kitchen appliances, newer flooring, AND private laundry hook-ups.
I move in and go buy a dryer (as the landlord has an old beat up washer in the basement we can use if needed). (Electric) dryer gets delivered and won't turn on. The installer claims its an issue with the outlet (the outside of the outlet shows wear so this is a somewhat reasonable assumption.) My landlord comes out and uses a (non-electrician's) tester. There is power to the outlet. So I exchange the dryer for a different one (even new model) which I have tested in the store. 2nd dryer is delivered and doesn't work either. So the landlord has his electrician (who is a family member) come out to look at the outlet. Turns out the ground wire for my apartment (and a different ground wire for one above) have become disconnected. Everything works and is great.
So 2 weeks later (today) I go out and buy a washer. I clean out the last of the boxes in the laundry room so there's space for the washer to be delivered next week and notice that there's only a 2 prong outlet there.
No washer I know of uses a non-grounded 2 prong plug. There is a grounded plug on the exact opposite side of the wall. I could run an extension cord the 6' thorough the empty window frame to the other side of the wall, BUT all washers say not to use extension cords--even appliance specific extension cords. An outlet converter is an electrical fire waiting to happen.
I am going to call my landlord and see how the previous tenants plugged in their machine what he wants me to do. In an ideal world he would install a grounded 3 prong in the laundry room, but I am not sure how strongly to argue for this method. With anything except a new outlet I'll be upping my rental insurance amounts.
I would argue most strongly. Running an extension cord is a hazard and if a fire is caused through its use his insurance will be nil and you'll be up the creek too unless you have him sign a waiver. This of course would be MY last resort if he baulked. "OK, I'll run the cord but I don't want to be held responsible if it causes a fire so just sign here that you're knowingly and willingly let me do this and we'll be fine ..." Cheers and good luck!
The landlord should have a GFCI installed. His relative can do it or, if he knows what he is doing, it is easy enough for the landlord to do it himself.
Tenants should NEVER mess with the systems of the place they are renting.
2-3 prong converters are a huge fire risk (worse than extension cords) esp. if the outlet doesn't have a ground wire inside. Mine doesn't. Using it without a ground raises the possibility that if something came loose inside the washing machine, the appliance could put off current which esp. near water is terrifyingly dangerous. So that's a no-go in my book.
If my LL insists on the extension cord route I did find an extension cord for appliances with GFCI built into the cord but I would sleep better if there was a dedicated GFCI outlet. If he refuses to pay to do it I suppose I could try to get the ok to pay his electrician to do it for me. But it sounds like this could easily top $1000 depending on the state of the electrical and while avoiding fire risk losing all my stuff, etc. is priceless, paying that much to improve someone else's property will hurt. The huge bummer is that if I was aware of the issue I would have paid to fix it first and then saved for a washer rather than having to go the reverse route.
where do you folks come up with some of this stuff.?
thats not true at all about 2 wire receptacles or 2 to 3 adapters being more fire prone. whoever told you that handed you a pile of bull.
the neutral side of every 120v pair of wires is grounded back at the panel. there is no difference.. every wye -system has a neutral thats grounded . there is no greater fire risk at all.
in fact the plugs today are polarized with one larger than the other so as long as the electrician wiring the receptacles didnt cross wires you are just as protected with an adaptor as a 3-wire set up if you put the grounding screw through the little tab on the adapter as the romex gnd is attached to it on the other side .if its bx cable than the bx ground wire goes to the same place.
THE 3RD PRONG ONLY PROVIDES A GREATER DEGREE OF SHOCK PROTECTION IF THE RECPTACLE IS MIS-WIRED OR THE GROUND CONNECTION ON THE ADAPTER WAS NOT USED PROPERLY.. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION AND FIRES. .
the idea of a 3-wireplug is when you have a metal cased appliance A wire is connected from the chassis directly to the 3rd prong of the plug . if a wire frays and hits the metal chassis of the appliance the instant the frayed wire hits the metal the electricity makes contact with the ground wire through the 3rd prong and you have a short circuit blowing the fuse. ..
with a 2-wire ungrounded plug if the hot hits the metal enclosure of the same appliance ,no fuse will blow just yet. nothing will happen until you come along and touch it. there is no direct short to ground at first,its waiting for you to come along and touch it thereby completing the short to ground to blow the same fuse.
so its preferable to have the ground wire in the 3rd prong providing a path to ground that blows the fuse than you acting as the path to ground and blowing the fuse.
now print this out and give it to whomever gave you that malarky about being more prone to fire.
matty-united electric power
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Last edited by mathjak107; 02-12-2012 at 12:23 PM..
2-3 prong converters are a huge fire risk (worse than extension cords) esp. if the outlet doesn't have a ground wire inside. Mine doesn't. Using it without a ground raises the possibility that if something came loose inside the washing machine, the appliance could put off current which esp. near water is terrifyingly dangerous. So that's a no-go in my book.
If my LL insists on the extension cord route I did find an extension cord for appliances with GFCI built into the cord but I would sleep better if there was a dedicated GFCI outlet. If he refuses to pay to do it I suppose I could try to get the ok to pay his electrician to do it for me. But it sounds like this could easily top $1000 depending on the state of the electrical and while avoiding fire risk losing all my stuff, etc. is priceless, paying that much to improve someone else's property will hurt. The huge bummer is that if I was aware of the issue I would have paid to fix it first and then saved for a washer rather than having to go the reverse route.
a gfci outlet has nothing to do with short circuit protection and being fire prone or not .. its only for people protection against shock.... it has nothing to do with protecting against shorts. before it even comes up ,yes,gfci outlets work just fine without a ground wire,.
gfci receptacles are designed to sense micro amounts of current leaking to ground and trip in milliseconds . they are designed to protect you in a case like i mentioned above where your body starts to act as a path to ground because of equipment malfunctions.
perhaps a component in the appliance is leaking tiny amounts of current to the metal case of the appliance. its far from being a short circuit and blowing a fuse but if your in bare feet on a cement floor ,or have wet feet from the shower it may be enough to jolt you. thats what a gfci device protectes against.
its not really the thread for it but i would love to bring you all up to speed on the differences between 3-wire vs 2-wire receptacles as well as grounding vs gfci protection. there is just so much mis-information by the public on this stuff.
matty -united electric power.
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-12-2012 at 12:16 PM..
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