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I'm thinking the OP is trolling. I refuse to believe that he is real. No way, after all the advice all of you have given him, he still isn't getting it. . .
D. "When tenancy is for a certain period" (It was for a fixed one year lease) under written or verbal agreement (it was notarized) "and the time expires" (1-31-2013) "the tenant shall surrender possession. NOTICE TO QUIT OR DEMAND OF POSSESSION IS NOT THEN NECESSARY."
If the tenant surrenders possession, no notice or demand is necessary.
E. "A tenant who holds over possession of property against the will of the landlord shall not be considered a tenant at sufferance or at will."
A tenant at sufferance or "at-will" are very specific legal terms and do not apply to a tenant whose lease has expired and continues to remain while someone pays the majority of the rent and it is accepted by either the landlord or his agent (property manager).
So it seems like we've come full circle. A) they are no longer considered tenants B) A court order would not be necessary.
They ARE considered tenants, just not those specific kinds of tenants; and a court order MAY be necessary IF the tenants do not vacate within the specific time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrey
read E. ...if he is not a tenant at sufferance or at will, what kind of tenant would he be?
As previously responded: he becomes a holdover tenant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litlove71
Did you or your property manager actually give 30 days notice? Or are you making an assumption?
You agreed to Section 8's rules and received dependable rental income as a result.
For anyone who reads this thread in the future who might think there is even a shred of validity to the OP's claims or arguments, please read my responses in blue above.
Additionally, the OP has not answered specifically the question concerning whether the lease addresses the expiration issue: to wit, 99% of standardized leases AND state laws determine that when a lease expires, it becomes a month-to-month tenancy. Absent that answer from OP, it remains likely that the tenant is a holdover or month-to-month tenant.
I can only hope that further issues concerning the suggestions/options put forth by the OP will be understood by future readers to be options that are illegal and could lead to serious penalties and fines should the tenant choose to pursue legal remedies.
NY Annie has provided the basis why the argument presented in wrong. If I may, let me expand.
ARS 33-341 A-D references the termination of various types of tenancy. Section E which is being grossly misinterpreted, is an Arizona Territorial holdover that essentially states that any person who has occupied a premise without ever having the owner’s permissions (squatter) is not a tenant under Arizona law and has no tenant (squatter) rights as a tenant. It does not apply to anyone whose occupancy was established with permission. A tenant who occupied property and is now holding over without permission is still a tenant under AZ law. The original poster failed to read Arizona Revised Statues 33-342 (next section) that specifically grants tenant right to a holdover tenant as a month to month tenancy.
Sec 8 only does 1 year leases. There is no month to month. I was paid on time for two years, but he failed to pay his minute share this month, after learning he would not be renewed. Sec 8 actually had the nerve to request a 30 day extension for him on about the 10th, so it is quite obvious that proper notice was given. No, I didn't see the letter, but as previously stated, the manager is a licensed property manager, who works within the law. She is pissed at me for raising the rent, because that ends her easy income on that unit, due to the inability of the tenants to pay market rent.
^^ What does it matter? The property manager isn't going to be getting any income from the place once this month is over anyway. Once the tenant is out you're moving back in again so will never have to bother with either a property manager or tenant issues or Section 8 again. Hopefully never again.
I referred to "self-help remedies" in an early reply. Do either of those self-help remedies and you could find yourself not only being sued in civil court but the tenants could charge you criminally if you have their car towed.
You have a one-track mind and your rigidity is going to land you in trouble. Mostly it will cost you financially to do what you propose to do as thelaw is very much against landlords who use self-help methods; often imposing a penalty upon costs incurred.
I'm now done with the OP and his insistence upon circumventing due procedure.
I assume you were misspeaking and meant to actually quote the OP...since you quoted me totally 100% agreeing with you and then insulted me and my opinion.
I assume you were misspeaking and meant to actually quote the OP...since you quoted me totally 100% agreeing with you and then insulted me and my opinion.
I was totally not insulting you (not intending to). My apologies for any phrasing which led you to believe that. I put the self-help remedies in quotes to bring emphasis to the OP's ridiculous plan of action.
I read the lease. He signed off on the fact that if he is a holdover, I will be entitled to two months rent or actual damages, whichever is greater. I will not seek any "self-remedies". The law is clearly in my favor. I do appreciate the 13,500 that was paid for the use of my condo for two years. I only paid 22K for it, so maybe those people milking the taxpayers aren't the smart ones, after all.
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