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Hi everyone, so we're kind of at a crossroads here trying to figure out what to do about our apartment situation. We're trying to figure out what grounds we have to stand on to break our lease early.
So here's the situation.
We're only 3 months into a 1-year contract and have had numerous plumbing problems since our move in, I believe these problems were existent prior to our move in as well. This is a 2 bedroom w/ 2 full-bathroom apartment. The first things we noticed was occasionally both toilets would back up, not flush and emit a foul odor, this was happening every couple weeks and they would send a maintenance guy to come out and run a snake to get the toilets flushing properly. At first it seemed fine, at least until it got worse and not only were both toilets backing up but we also had water coming back up through our master shower drain. They came out and continued to do the pipe snake when the shower+toilets backed up a couple more times.
And then it got even worse...the most recent incident both toilets backed up again and we had sewage water come up through the shower drain; this included toilet paper and every other thing you can imagine from sewage water. They called their maintenance guy out who attempted to snake it but it proved unsuccessful. Instead something went wrong and we ended up having sewage water flood one of the bathrooms, our entire hallway, and then about 6-7 feet worth of our the master bedroom carpet. They immediately called out professional plumbers who stopped the flooding and got the pipes draining again, that same day a carpet service also arrived to repair the carpet damage.
Over the next couple days the professional plumbers came back to find out what was causing our plumbing issues. They confirmed that there was pipe damage from tree roots, they cleared out as much as they could and now there are plans to take about a week to tear apart the bathroom floor and part of a closet to repair the damaged pipes.
And now the second (possibly mold) issue...
As all the plumbing issues were going on I was also finding large puddles of water spilled out all over the master bathroom floor. At first I thought this was relating to the plumbing issue so I shrugged it off as the toilet overflowing. But then I began to realize the flooding only occurred when the 2nd bathroom tub was filled. Their maintenance guy was sent over once awhile back to check it out but we couldn't replicate the problem (of course) because at the time I didn't know the exact cause. Later I confirmed that upon draining the 2nd bathroom tub water will leak from that tub, through the walls, and over to the master bedroom bathroom floor. And now I'm having a hard time getting it through to them that there are 2 separate issues.
I spotted some mold spots about a month back and I suspect there is mold within the walls and crawlspace caused by the leaking tub water. I suspect this because the reason we moved out of our last house was due to mold being built up within the walls (caused by a leaking bathtub as well, what are the odds right?). So now I am extremely frustrated that we ended up moving from one house with plumbing and mold issues to an apartment with nearly the same issues. For all I know, there's 3+ months of mold build up behind those walls.
Now we have an opportunity to move in with someone else. Problem is the apartment contract, they want the 2 months rent cancellation fee upfront prior to move out. And honestly with all these problems it's not something I'm willing to do. I'd be willing to negotiate something like surrendering the security deposit but anything more I don't think is justified at this point.
If you were in this position, what would you do? There are plans in the works for getting the piping issue taken care of but how do I get my mold concerns across to them? What are some ways I can convince them to inspect the area for mold damages?
tl;dr cliff notes:
1. Apartment has plumbing issues existing prior to move-in, roots in pipes, sewage backed up onto floors.
2. Main bathroom tub is leaking water into master bedroom bathroom through walls; going on since move-in 3 months ago, likely existed prior to move-in as well.
3. Mold beginnings spotted on master bedroom bathroom wall, concerns it's inside the walls.
4. Prior residence had same issues, required major internal wall repairs, don't want to deal with this again.
5. Opportunity to live with someone else, contract termination fee expected to be paid upfront prior to move out.
You don't have any proof that there is mold. The landlord is fixing the tree root problem and has been sending people out. If they ignored the backed up plumbing situation then you might have a legal standpoint to break the lease. But they have been sending workers there constantly and they have indentified the tree roots and are in the process of resolving. It's probably costing them thousands of dollars to fix. If there was proven mold you might have a case. But a small spot on the wall can be mildew or a type of mold that is non-toxic or can be something else altogether.
If I was in your shoes and wanted to move, then I would give proper notice (30 days?) and then pay the 2 month lease break fee. Keep in mind you should get your security deposit back if you pay the lease break fee as long as you don't have any damages. So it's just 1 more month of pay than what you wanted to pay.
IMO, trying to prove mold might not result in any mold being present. And what kind of hassle/stress is this going to cause you. It could take weeks or months of debating with the landlord and trying to get testing done. Then who pays for it? And what happens when it comes back free of mold? Or what if it does have mold and then landlord decides to fix it. Then you still cannot back out of lease, most likely.
2 month lease break fee seems to be a win win for you. Sure beats having to worry about owing 9 more months of rent if they couldn't rerent. You pay 2 months fee and walk way stress free. Sounds pretty good given all the alternative 'what ifs' and hoops you would have to jump through if you try to get out of that fee.
You don't need a reason to break your lease...read your lease's "early termination" clause and follow it to t a T. Will you get it out this lease without paying a penalty? Doubt it..why?? You landlord is doing everything he can to fix the problem..you have to give him time to fix the problem. This isnt' an easy fix.
Quoting OP: "We're only 3 months into a 1-year contract and have had numerous plumbing problems since our move in,"
For an approx. $100 consultation fee, you need to take your lease to an attorney immediately, and have him tell you what your rights are. The problem started on day one of your move-in. You've waited long enough for landlord to correct the situation; and that was the reason the former tenant moved out. Landlord has broken lease, not you.
Landlord never should have rented the unit until the problem was fixed and any underlying issues were resolved, possible mold, repainting, carpets, flooring, etc. He knew there was a problem and he is at fault.
Start packing and get out, you are living with a sewage problem, totally against the law. Landlord broke the law on day one by allowing you to move in with knowledge of sewage problems. And, next time, make sure you ask about structural problems wherever you rent.
^^ The OP has NO proof that those plumbing issues were pre-existent...he said and I quote...". I believe these problems were existent prior to our move in as well." No where in his post does he say that he has proof that this was a problem before they moved in.
Nor does he have any proof that the prior tenant moved out because of the plumbing issues. Tree roots get into pipes all the time, back ups happen all the time well...how do you know that the OP isn't flushing tampons, baby wipes and paper towels down the toilet? You don't. Ask any plumber and they will tell that those three things will clog a pipe faster than anything.
The OP can move whenever he wants..he just wants to do it without paying a penalty. He doesn't need a lawyer...he needs to talk to his landlord (who might waive the fee) and move out.
^^ The OP has NO proof that those plumbing issues were pre-existent...he said and I quote...". I believe these problems were existent prior to our move in as well." No where in his post does he say that he has proof that this was a problem before they moved in.
Nor does he have any proof that the prior tenant moved out because of the plumbing issues. Tree roots get into pipes all the time, back ups happen all the time well...how do you know that the OP isn't flushing tampons, baby wipes and paper towels down the toilet? You don't. Ask any plumber and they will tell that those three things will clog a pipe faster than anything.
The OP can move whenever he wants..he just wants to do it without paying a penalty. He doesn't need a lawyer...he needs to talk to his landlord (who might waive the fee) and move out.
Why don't you reply to the OP and ask him about the above. If a plumber came over and unclogged toilets, he would have found "objects" clogging up the pipes. If it were tree roots, they didn't suddenly appear when the OP moved in. That's not rocket science. I'll stand by my response to the OP, unless he proves himself guilty of abusing the property. It is against the law for a landlord to continue to allow tenants in that unit. If he were any kind of decent landlord he would have offered them a move out into a habitable and healthy unit.
You have no grounds to break the lease without paying the early termination fee. The landlord has done everything reasonably possible to correct the problems that have occurred, in a timely manner. You have no proof of a serious mold problem, just hopeful speculation on your part, hoping you can use it to justify breaking the lease. Read up on the CA laws: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...problems.shtml
Pay the early termination fee and be done with it.
Why don't you reply to the OP and ask him about the above. If a plumber came over and unclogged toilets, he would have found "objects" clogging up the pipes. If it were tree roots, they didn't suddenly appear when the OP moved in. That's not rocket science. I'll stand by my response to the OP, unless he proves himself guilty of abusing the property. It is against the law for a landlord to continue to allow tenants in that unit. If he were any kind of decent landlord he would have offered them a move out into a habitable and healthy unit.
As an Architect, I'm pretty sure that you don't know what you are talking about. Tree roots are a common problem clogging sewer pipes, sewer pipes are not water tight, the joints are usually just a compression fit, they leak and allow small roots to grow into them, which eventually grow larger and clog the pipes, sometimes breaking the joints. It is not at all uncommon and almost all sewer lines need to have the roots cleaned out periodically. Why do you think one of the biggest companies that does this work is named "Roto-Rooter"?
You wrote:
Quote:
It is against the law for a landlord to continue to allow tenants in that unit.
Really, what law is that? What does it say? Can you provide a link to it? I do not believe it exists.
As an Architect, I'm pretty sure that you don't know what you are talking about. Tree roots are a common problem clogging sewer pipes, sewer pipes are not water tight, the joints are usually just a compression fit, they leak and allow small roots to grow into them, which eventually grow larger and clog the pipes, sometimes breaking the joints. It is not at all uncommon and almost all sewer lines need to have the roots cleaned out periodically. Why do you think one of the biggest companies that does this work is named "Roto-Rooter"?
... Really, what law is that? What does it say? Can you provide a link to it? I do not believe it exists.
Hi everyone, so we're kind of at a crossroads here trying to figure out what to do about our apartment situation. We're trying to figure out what grounds we have to stand on to break our lease early.
So here's the situation.
We're only 3 months into a 1-year contract and have had numerous plumbing problems since our move in, I believe these problems were existent prior to our move in as well. This is a 2 bedroom w/ 2 full-bathroom apartment. The first things we noticed was occasionally both toilets would back up, not flush and emit a foul odor, this was happening every couple weeks and they would send a maintenance guy to come out and run a snake to get the toilets flushing properly. At first it seemed fine, at least until it got worse and not only were both toilets backing up but we also had water coming back up through our master shower drain. They came out and continued to do the pipe snake when the shower+toilets backed up a couple more times.
And then it got even worse...the most recent incident both toilets backed up again and we had sewage water come up through the shower drain; this included toilet paper and every other thing you can imagine from sewage water. They called their maintenance guy out who attempted to snake it but it proved unsuccessful. Instead something went wrong and we ended up having sewage water flood one of the bathrooms, our entire hallway, and then about 6-7 feet worth of our the master bedroom carpet. They immediately called out professional plumbers who stopped the flooding and got the pipes draining again, that same day a carpet service also arrived to repair the carpet damage.
Over the next couple days the professional plumbers came back to find out what was causing our plumbing issues. They confirmed that there was pipe damage from tree roots, they cleared out as much as they could and now there are plans to take about a week to tear apart the bathroom floor and part of a closet to repair the damaged pipes.
And now the second (possibly mold) issue...
As all the plumbing issues were going on I was also finding large puddles of water spilled out all over the master bathroom floor. At first I thought this was relating to the plumbing issue so I shrugged it off as the toilet overflowing. But then I began to realize the flooding only occurred when the 2nd bathroom tub was filled. Their maintenance guy was sent over once awhile back to check it out but we couldn't replicate the problem (of course) because at the time I didn't know the exact cause. Later I confirmed that upon draining the 2nd bathroom tub water will leak from that tub, through the walls, and over to the master bedroom bathroom floor. And now I'm having a hard time getting it through to them that there are 2 separate issues.
I spotted some mold spots about a month back and I suspect there is mold within the walls and crawlspace caused by the leaking tub water. I suspect this because the reason we moved out of our last house was due to mold being built up within the walls (caused by a leaking bathtub as well, what are the odds right?). So now I am extremely frustrated that we ended up moving from one house with plumbing and mold issues to an apartment with nearly the same issues. For all I know, there's 3+ months of mold build up behind those walls.
Now we have an opportunity to move in with someone else. Problem is the apartment contract, they want the 2 months rent cancellation fee upfront prior to move out. And honestly with all these problems it's not something I'm willing to do. I'd be willing to negotiate something like surrendering the security deposit but anything more I don't think is justified at this point.
If you were in this position, what would you do? There are plans in the works for getting the piping issue taken care of but how do I get my mold concerns across to them? What are some ways I can convince them to inspect the area for mold damages?
tl;dr cliff notes:
1. Apartment has plumbing issues existing prior to move-in, roots in pipes, sewage backed up onto floors.
2. Main bathroom tub is leaking water into master bedroom bathroom through walls; going on since move-in 3 months ago, likely existed prior to move-in as well.
3. Mold beginnings spotted on master bedroom bathroom wall, concerns it's inside the walls.
4. Prior residence had same issues, required major internal wall repairs, don't want to deal with this again.
5. Opportunity to live with someone else, contract termination fee expected to be paid upfront prior to move out.
I think you can legally break your lease because of the unit being uninhabitable under CA Civil Code 1942. One of your remedies is to abandon the lease.
According to the law, you have to give your landlord a reasonable amount of time to fix the problem. The CA Dept of Consumer Affairs says this should be no more than 30 days, and can be as little as one or two. The specific example given on their website is a tree's root in the sewer pipes.
You have given them 3 months to fix the problem. You don't need to believe they'll fix it next week. I believe you can leave now with no penalty under this law.
I'll include some links below for your reference, but I'd write the LL a letter like this:
Dear LL:
Because of the ongoing sewer problems in the unit, which make it uninhabitable, we will be vacating the unit at _______________________(address) on _________________(date). We are using the abandonment remedy under California Civil Code Section 1942, in which we are allowed to vacate the premises without penalty.
As you know, we made you aware of the repairs that were needed shortly after moving in three months ago. We have continued to inform you after each occurance. The problem still has not been fixed. Continual sewage back-up, resulting in flooding with raw sewage into our apartment, as well as noxious fumes, makes the unit uninhabitable.
It is our belief that you were aware of the sewage problem in our unit prior to our moving in. This would have not only made the lease illegal, but we believe because of this, you would be required by the court to reimburse us for all of the rent we have paid to date, plus punitive damages and attorney's fees, as well as our moving costs. There may even be additional remedies, such as negligent infliction of emotional distress. If this issue goes to court, we will pursue all legal avenues available to us.
We agree not to sue you for rent paid to date or any other legal remedies allowed by law, if you will agree to simply let us terminate the lease without any further cost or penalty, and if you return our full deposit.
Please respond in writing that you accept our offer to settle this matter out of court, by accepting our terms above, and by returning our full deposit in the amount of $____________ by _____________________(date) to our forwarding address below.
Sincerely,
You
Forwarding Address
------------------------
I think you should start here. Don't pay them anything, and be sure you always say that the reason you are leaving is because of the sewer problems, and not any other reason.
Then, leave the place in good shape and take photos.
If you can get photos of any sewage problems that would be good. Write down all dates you can think of regarding when maintenance guys came out to work on the problem, and be sure and keep any emails, texts, letters, etc., where you told the LL of the problems.
I think you have a good chance that the LL will let you walk away. If not, he may sue you for the termination fee, and maybe try to keep your deposit. If he does, I would counter-sue for all of the above.
If somehow you lose, you will have bought time before having to fork over the 2 months termination fee. I would bet, though, that the judge would at least abate some of your rent.
You should know your rights regarding the security deposit law, too. Don't ask for a move-out inspection. He has to notify you of your right to one, and if he doesn't - he loses the right to your deposit. He also has to give you your deposit and/or a written itemization of deductions within 21 days, or loses the right to the deposit.
Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 01-18-2014 at 04:24 PM..
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