newbie landord help/questions with tenant move out (rental, security deposit, house)
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I have a second house that I rent out, and the tenant asked to take out the carpet 5 years ago and replace it with laminate floors, and we said that they could do it (they were there for 5 years prior). It looked nice when they put it in.
They are now moving out after 10 years, and the furniture, rugs out, etc. are all out of the house, and when I realize that the flooring was the absolute cheapest stuff, completely warn through, gouged, etc, and needs to be removed. In my trips to local flooring to plan on getting new laminate installed (which I do like better than carpet for the next tenant and I will pay for myself), they will charge $993 (Lowe's) or $700 (local flooring company) for removal of the old/cheap laminate.
The tenant says that the removal is the landlord responsibility since we agreed to let them install it themselves.
I believe that the tenant should remove their added in flooring before they move out, since if we had left the carpet, that removal of the carpet would be included in the pricing for new laminate installation.
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Also, I do notice that the backyard grass is in really bad condition (they are responsible for upkeep of yard, which they have mostly done, the front yard looks great).
They do have a dog (allowed), but apparently over the last year or so (since I was last in the back yard), they have stopped cleaning up after the dog since it looks absolutely very bad. I do have an addendum for pets that states:
- To promptly remove any pet waste from the Property, including all living areas, garages, storage
areas, yards, porches, patios, courtyards, decks;
- To keep the pet from damaging any property belonging to the Landlord or others;
The tenant believes that the yard damage is just 'part of having a dog' and it is not their responsibility.
I believe that the yard damage is over the top and is considered damage to the yard.
I just wanted to get some feedback, and see what other landlord/tenant viewpoints are out there.
Since the tenant was there for 10 years, you would have had to replace the original carpet anyway. So, replacing flooring is a given, in my opinion.
So, your issue is that the new installation won't include tearing out the fllooring the tenant put in - which you gave them permission to do.
I agree with your tenant. You don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. I will guess that you had hoped to get new flooring paid for and installed by the tenant, that would extend the life of the flooring in your rental without having to pay for that life extension yourself. Can't blame you there. But, when you let the tenant choose the material and put it in themselves, you got what you paid for. And I can't imagine a judge saying the tenant now has to also pay to tear up what you gave them permission to do.
As far as the yard goes, they should return it to you in the same condition they received it. What did the yard look like when they moved in 10 years ago? Normal wear and tear would include fences starting to deteriorate with age, but a lawn destroyed by the tenant's dog is not normal wear and tear. If the yard looks better than it did 10 years ago, regardless of the dog, you can't charge them for the way it looks today.
Think of all of the money you would have lost if you had had to find new tenants every year for 10 years, though. Consider the painting, etc., and probably a month's lost rent every year for 10 years. Then, look at the cost of fixing the lawn and paying to rip up the laminate flooring. Is it really worth ending up in court with these tenants? I think you've come out way ahead over 10 years, if that's the worst of it.
If you required a security deposit and feel like pursuing either the flooring or lawn issue, couldn't you take the expenses out if it?
I would not pursue the floor issue, but I may for the lawn, unless you plan on renting to another tenant with a dog. Then new seeding wouldn't have time to take before a dog was walking and using the bathroom on it.
Do you have before and after pics? Maybe post them and it would be easier for people to see how bad the condition is...
The flooring you're gonna have to eat it. (Just a good example of why you DON'T let a tenant work in the property)
Did you expect the tenant to put in real oak hardwood? If you had carpet 10 years later you would have to replace it and couldn't charge the tenant anyway. Tear out the floor. If it's snap together floating floor it will come up easily. Go install whatever cheap carpet/pad and call it a day on that subject.
And I did say you dont let tenants work in your property didn't I? No no no. Bad Landlord. All joking aside its just all around bad idea to allow tenants to work in your properties. Not only the workmanship and lack of supervision or quality control, but there is a liability factor.
The flooring you're gonna have to eat it. (Just a good example of why you DON'T let a tenant work in the property)
Did you expect the tenant to put in real oak hardwood? If you had carpet 10 years later you would have to replace it and couldn't charge the tenant anyway. Tear out the floor. If it's snap together floating floor it will come up easily. Go install whatever cheap carpet/pad and call it a day on that subject.
And I did say you dont let tenants work in your property didn't I? No no no. Bad Landlord. All joking aside its just all around bad idea to allow tenants to work in your properties. Not only the workmanship and lack of supervision or quality control, but there is a liability factor.
They lived their for 10 years and you are trying to get out of paying for new flooring? Sorry but thats on you. As previously stated you would have had to change the carpet anyway. Its the cost of doing business.
Most tenants hate carpet- find a deal on some tile- its low maintenance and you won't have to keep replacing it. Those floating floors never last that long.
Can you talk to our previous landlord (lol)---she expected us to do EVERYTHING- i.e.-the hot water heater broke and she made us call PG&E instead of a repair man because she didn't want to pay for the call to find out the problem. We had to wait 3 days for the part to come in the mail and my spouse had to put it in.
The furnace wouldn't fire- she wouldn't call us back so again my spouse had to fix it.
Our carpet was from 1972 and stained from the prior tenant- it took us 2 years to convince her to let us remove it (midcentury house w/ hardwood floors underneath). We removed it and we made her come over right away so she could see how the floors looked and not blame us.
We removed the grass in the front yard (w/ permission) and put in beautiful low maintenance/very low water landscaping. (Water usage is a big issue in Ca-yet she didn't seem to understand that) -when we moved out she came up with all of these ridiculous charges- weeding 30.00 per hour, etc. so she could keep most of our security deposit. If anything we improved her property value and she charged us for it- lesson learned -never rent from the crazy cheap person again...
my point is there is a cost to maintain the property per year and you as the landlord are responsible for that.
If you are going to rent to people with dogs then I wouldn't bother reseeding the grass.
They lived their for 10 years and you are trying to get out of paying for new flooring? Sorry but thats on you. As previously stated you would have had to change the carpet anyway. Its the cost of doing business.
Most tenants hate carpet- find a deal on some tile- its low maintenance and you won't have to keep replacing it. Those floating floors never last that long.
Can you talk to our previous landlord (lol)---she expected us to do EVERYTHING- i.e.-the hot water heater broke and she made us call PG&E instead of a repair man because she didn't want to pay for the call to find out the problem. We had to wait 3 days for the part to come in the mail and my spouse had to put it in.
The furnace wouldn't fire- she wouldn't call us back so again my spouse had to fix it.
Our carpet was from 1972 and stained from the prior tenant- it took us 2 years to convince her to let us remove it (midcentury house w/ hardwood floors underneath). We removed it and we made her come over right away so she could see how the floors looked and not blame us.
We removed the grass in the front yard (w/ permission) and put in beautiful low maintenance/very low water landscaping. (Water usage is a big issue in Ca-yet she didn't seem to understand that) -when we moved out she came up with all of these ridiculous charges- weeding 30.00 per hour, etc. so she could keep most of our security deposit. If anything we improved her property value and she charged us for it- lesson learned -never rent from the crazy cheap person again...
my point is there is a cost to maintain the property per year and you as the landlord are responsible for that.
If you are going to rent to people with dogs then I wouldn't bother reseeding the grass.
Because you let them put it in does not mean that they have to remove it or replace it. After 10 years it's normal wear and tear and you are responsible to replace it. Why should they, it's not their place. If the rent was $750 they paid you $90K to live there 10 years, replaced the floor at their cost and you have the audacity to ask them to redo it?
This is why you have once post and will probably never post again.
take out the carpet 5 years ago and replace it with laminate floors, ........They are now moving out after 10 years, ....... the flooring was the absolute cheapest stuff, completely warn through, gouged, etc, and needs to be removed......... charge $993 (Lowe's) or $700 (local flooring company) for removal of the old/cheap laminate.............
.............they have stopped cleaning up after the dog since it looks absolutely very bad. .........The tenant believes that the yard damage is just 'part of having a dog' and it is not their responsibility.....
I think you get to eat the flooring expense. 10 year tenants move out and you need to replace the flooring. Was the carpet brand new when they moved in? I suspect the carpet was older since you allowed them to remove it. I suspect that if they had left the existing carpet that you would be replacing carpet now, due to age, and you can't bill tenants for flooring replaced because of age.
$993 is absolutely outrageous to remove laminate flooring. Laminate should be a floating floor and it is not that big a project to remove it. I suggest that you get a few more estimates. Personally, I'd remove it myself because it should not be a difficult job.
If you are going to replace with carpet, just put it over the old laminate.
Yard damage is not just "part of having a dog". Clock your hours to scoop poop and bill them for poop removal by the hour. I charge my tenants $25 an hour to clean up dog mess.
The yard should be mowed and watered and top seeded with lawn grass. Use bagged potting soil to fill any any dog-dug holes.The tenants get billed for all of that. However, unless the backyard looked like a golf course when they moved in, you can not scalp the yard and lay down new turf at the tenants' expense.
You can bill by the hour for trimming back shrubbery if they didn't do it. I tell my tenants that they are not allowed to trim trees or shrubbery because they don't know what they are doing. I go by and do the trimming when it is needed so they don't ruin my plants.
Sorry, OP, but tenants just do not take care of your property the same as you would. That just comes with renting out your house. You can bill them to repair damage and for some cleaning, but they will put a lot of wear and tear on your house that is just the way rentals are going to look when a tenant moves out. They are hard on a property.
You might want to think really hard about installing new laminate. I won't use it in my rentals and I know several other landlords who won't use it.
All of it is easily water damaged. The cheap stuff looks awful and doesn't age well. The nice stuff is expensive and costs more than the lower end line of real solid oak flooring.
I no longer use vinyl flooring either. I use the plank Allure flooring if it is an area where there is likely to be water. It costs more than vinyl flooring, is much much easier to install, which means the install is cheaper, and it lasts really well even with tenant abuse. The tenants gouge and cut my vinyl flooring and so far haven't been able to damage the Allure.
My last two flooring replacements have been pine plank. Relatively inexpensive and easy to replace just one board if there is damage. Nicks and scratches just make it look better, and the applicants all drool over it when they see the unit.
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