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Show me proof HUD will not allow someone with an ESA to live on property because I cannot seem to find anything supporting that.
If you are landlords and refuse to allow someone with an ESA to live on your property, you deserve to get sued for not following Fair Housing Act policies and terms and I hope you lose. Are there people who take advantage of this by having fraudulent letters? Yes, so if it bothers you, you contact the Dr. on the form to verify that the doctor actually wrote that letter. If this is during the time of an application, you deny the future tenant due to fraud. If this is a current tenant, you have the right to evict due to fraud.
Your actually opinion on this is irrelevant.
I gave you one way a LL can get out of allowing any animal, service or otherwise. It is called an undue burden and there are many more examples of what could constitute an undue burden and the example of a current resident with a pet allergy is just one of them.
Another example is if the cost to remediate the pet dander is too expensive then allowing the pet could be considered an undue burden on a smaller guy who only owns one small complex. That can also be argued as fundamentally altering his business practice because people with allergies seek out pet free places so they don't have to worry about it. Or if you are talking about a larger management company who has another complex in the same city that allows pets they can deny your request at the no pet place but offer housing at the other complex.
Hell if you submit the request without enough info or even just the wrong way he can put it on hold and move on to another tenant. I don't know why you think a LL has no options regarding this since the law has several ways for a LL to deny you.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 06-21-2016 at 12:59 AM..
LOL I discovered Mrlandlord.com and the people are worse than the ones on here and many clearly do not understand regulations in place for those with ESA. On an ESA thread I found, almost everyone there assumes that nearly every person who says that they have an ESA is a liar and they flat out will do whatever it takes to not allow someone from renting like many of you on here. Nice, loving, empathetic people.
Anyway if someone with a seeing eye dog (not an ESA) applies to live in a no pet apartment complex, they can be rejected if 1 person who lives there is allergic to dogs? Do applications even say "What are your allergies"? on them?
Last edited by LamarOdomsDealer; 06-20-2016 at 01:55 AM..
Easy enough to look up by googling HUD housing and service animals... DOJ does not count ESA as service animals and not covered under ADA. However you need to look up your state and jurisdiction for additional information....
Purpose: This notice explains certain obligations of housing providers under the Fair Housing Act (FHAct), Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (Section 504), and the
Housing Act (FHAct), Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (Section 504), and the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) with respect to animals that provide assistance to
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) with respect to animals that provide assistance to individuals with disabilities. The Department of Justice's (DOT) amendments to its
individuals with disabilities. The Department of Justice's (DOT) amendments to its regulations' for Titles II and III of the ADA limit the definition of "service animal" under the
regulations' for Titles II and III of the ADA limit the definition of "service animal” under the ADA to include only dogs, and further define "service animal" to exclude emotional support
ADA to include only dogs, and further define "service animal" to exclude emotional support animals. This definition, how ever, does not limit housing providers' obligations to make
animals. This definition, however, does not limit housing providers' obligations to make reasonable accommodations for assistance animals under the FHAct or Section 504. Persons
reasonable accommodations for assistance animals under the FHAct or Section 504. Persons with disabilities may request a reasonable accommodation for any assistance animal,
with disabilities may request a reasonable accommodation for any assistance animal, including an emotional support animal, under both the FHAct and Section 504. In situations
including an emotional support animal, under both the FHAct and Section 504. In situations
where the ADA and the FHAct/Section 504 apply simultaneously (e.g., a public housing where the ADA and the FHAct/Section 504 apply simultaneously (e.g., a public housing
agency, sales or leasing offices, or housing associated with a university or other place of education), housing providers must meet their obligations under both the reasonable
education), housing providers must meet their obligations under both the reasonable accommodation standard of the FHAct/Section 504 and the service animal provisions of the
accommodation standard of the FHAct/Section 504 and the service animal provisions of the ADA.
P.S. this keeps being brought up
????? In one of my first posts I said ESA are NOT service animals and listed the difference. I also said ESA is NOT covered under ADA. Thank you for finding that info but it doesn't exactly address what I'm asking.
LEGALLY, an Assistance Animal (FHAA's terminology to include all animals covered under their regulations) are NOT pets. As such, legally you can answer no. However, from a practical point, under those same laws, an Assistance Animal is not an automatic right in the same way that Service Animals under ADA have absolute rights.
So, although you can answer NO, if there is a "no-pet" policy or they charge "pet fee's or rents" it would not apply to you but you just can't bring in the animal and claim protection under FHAA. The law says you must request a "Reasonable Accommodation" and they must grant that reasonable accommodation unless they meet an exception.
I will also add that any landlord that uses an application that ask if you have a "pet" is a fool. All our applications ask about "animals". It next ask if that "animal" is an Assistance Animal as defined by the Fair Housing Amendment Act and are you (the applicant) asking for a Reasonable Accommodation under that regulations. Every applicant who checks that box for Assistance Animal is provided a RRA form that included the documentation required to be submitted. It also explains to them that until they receive the RRA approval, they are not allowed to bring the animal into the unit. . Note, under the FHAA, the landlord certainly has the legal right to verify the validity of the request before granting it unless the reason is obvious.
(I'm going to throw this in as I do on all topics about this subject) FHAA covers private, non government subsidized rentals. The ADA covers only the public areas of the rental complex but it's authority stops at the door to the rental unit.)
Now as far as landlord's rights are concern, the FHAA is one of those adopted rules under some state laws. Although a rental may be exempt from FHA under federal regulations,m states have adopted a state law that requires all landlords to follow FHAA. So, anyone who is a landlord really needs to learn what the heck the laws really are or find themselves being whapped by courts (and yes, the penalties are steep) for violations.
Just to add, both tenant and landlord need to be seeking the advice of competent legal or advocates on this subject. Based on many of the comments, it's clear the average person is absolutely ignorant on this subject!
Sorry I missed this. Thank you, this information was very helpful.
Anywayyyyy I am just going to consult with an attorney should I find applications that have the terms "pet" or "animal" in any questions. Some posts were insightful but others were from many people who feel their beliefs are above the law.
I'm interested in hearing from landlords here who have pet free complexes how you would address certain things (these are questions that do not affect me, but I'm just interested in hearing what you would do).
1. If an applicant fills out "yes" to a question that says "Are you going to be bringing with you any pets?" and they answered "I will be bringing a documented ESA with me", would you try to reject them even after they paid for their application?
2. If you end up rejecting someone merely because they have an ESA (but of course to cya you don't say that to avoid a lawsuit), what answer do you give someone if they ask you why they were rejected? If they have a good job history, excellent credit score, and more than sufficient funds, what's the story you give them? "Oh, we realized someone filled out an application before you and got approved already. Sorry". ???
3. If a current tenant ended up with PTSD (whether it be for a car accident, rape, returning from Iraq, etc.) and ended up with a doctor's letter and a cat or dog, would you find a reason to evict them? What would you list as the reason for eviction if they pay their rent on time and follow the rules of the complex?
4. Can you legally tell someone who is blind and has a seeing eye dog (this is NOT ESA but a service dog which is covered under ADA) that they cannot live at the complex because 1 person there has pet hair allergies?
I get that many LLs assume people with ESA are scammers and will do whatever it takes to find a reason to decline someone from signing a lease. I'm just interested in hearing the reasons or lies you would give.
Honestly though if applications were free and if my credit score wouldn't decrease due to credit checks, I would be up front and right away say "I have an ESA. Here is my doctor's letter", but they aren't and I don't want to waste my $$$ if management would not accommodate me as per FHA and try to gerrymander me (I know gerrymandering isn't the correct term...It's late and I forgot which is the non political term for that). Pet friendly complexes I agree would be the best for me as I feel I could avoid potential problems with LLs trying to find a way to get rid of me, but again due to my budget and a location that I have to stay in (it's a family thing....too long of a story), I do not have that many options.
Anywayyyyy I am just going to consult with an attorney should I find applications that have the terms "pet" or "animal" in any questions. Some posts were insightful but others were from many people who feel their beliefs are above the law.
I'm interested in hearing from landlords here who have pet free complexes how you would address certain things (these are questions that do not affect me, but I'm just interested in hearing what you would do).
1. If an applicant fills out "yes" to a question that says "Are you going to be bringing with you any pets?" and they answered "I will be bringing a documented ESA with me", would you try to reject them even after they paid for their application?
2. If you end up rejecting someone merely because they have an ESA (but of course to cya you don't say that to avoid a lawsuit), what answer do you give someone if they ask you why they were rejected? If they have a good job history, excellent credit score, and more than sufficient funds, what's the story you give them? "Oh, we realized someone filled out an application before you and got approved already. Sorry". ???
3. If a current tenant ended up with PTSD (whether it be for a car accident, rape, returning from Iraq, etc.) and ended up with a doctor's letter and a cat or dog, would you find a reason to evict them? What would you list as the reason for eviction if they pay their rent on time and follow the rules of the complex?
4. Can you legally tell someone who is blind and has a seeing eye dog (this is NOT ESA but a service dog which is covered under ADA) that they cannot live at the complex because 1 person there has pet hair allergies?
I get that many LLs assume people with ESA are scammers and will do whatever it takes to find a reason to decline someone from signing a lease. I'm just interested in hearing the reasons or lies you would give.
Honestly though if applications were free and if my credit score wouldn't decrease due to credit checks, I would be up front and right away say "I have an ESA. Here is my doctor's letter", but they aren't and I don't want to waste my $$$ if management would not accommodate me as per FHA and try to gerrymander me (I know gerrymandering isn't the correct term...It's late and I forgot which is the non political term for that). Pet friendly complexes I agree would be the best for me as I feel I could avoid potential problems with LLs trying to find a way to get rid of me, but again due to my budget and a location that I have to stay in (it's a family thing....too long of a story), I do not have that many options.
You're asking landlords to help you prepare for YOUR lawsuit?
You might be legitimate with a legitimate emotional support animal, but landlords all over the country are bombarded with an endless number of fraudulent claims about service dogs. In my area, every pitbull, no exception, 100% of the pitbulls, belonging to tenants are "service dogs". It's not because the owner is handicapped, it is not because the dog is trained, it's not because anyone needs the pitbull for the quality of their life. It is becasue landlords do not allow pitbulls and the pitbull owners have discovered they can deceive their way fraudulently into a rental.
It makes landlords gun shy about service animal claims. The emotional support animals are even worse because they don't have too have any training and can be totally out of control. So much fraud makes life difficult for the people with legitimate service animals and legitimate emotional support animals, but I can tell you for sure that nearly 100% of the people applying to rent from me claiming that their dog is federally protected are lying and their dog is just a pet, and often not of the breed that they claim it is.
That is what is making your life more difficult, OP, but it is not an excuse for you to lie or deceive, too.
Untrained, undocumented Pit Bulls (and similar dogs) that are claimed as "emotional support dogs" are a huge, huge problem in some neighborhoods in my city.
I'm suspecting that within 10 minutes of talking to this guy he would be already on the "no way in hell" list of prospective tenants.
Agree.
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