NEED HELP! LANDLORD WON’T GRANT MOVe-OUT INSPECTION! (deposit, carpet, record)

[Electrician4you]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

NO. The initial inspection letter has to be given to the tenant AFTER the tenant gives written notice to move out. That is the law.

Landlords put that into leases to try and bluff tenants on this very issue. But, the law is clear that they must give you the initial inspection letter, which must contain your rights in the letter - before you move out. And the landlord must do an initial inspection, if you ask for one.

My wife sends a packet with instructions on the move out and what is expected as soon as I give or get a notice of termination. Same instructions they get when they move in. Pretty redundant. Most of my tenants end up calling me and I verbally have to go through it anyway. When they call. Most don’t. The info is there but most don’t read it. It’s pretty frustrating to explainin info already given.

Imo sending a notice is just stupid. The lease states what is expected of you along with everything else in the packet I give tenants when they move in.

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

NO. The initial inspection letter has to be given to the tenant AFTER the tenant gives written notice to move out. That is the law.

Landlords put that into leases to try and bluff tenants on this very issue. But, the law is clear that they must give you the initial inspection letter, which must contain your rights in the letter - before you move out. And the landlord must do an initial inspection, if you ask for one.

Thank you.

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

Here is the California Dept of Consumer Affairs book on your rights:

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/manufactured-m...t-Landlord.pdf

The section on initial inspections begins on page 55 of the handbook.

Here are some sections from the handbook:

Landlord’s notice

The landlord must give the tenant written notice of the tenant’s right to request an initial
inspection of the rental and to be present during the inspection. The landlord must give this
notice to the tenant a “reasonable time” after either the landlord or the tenant has given the
other written notice of intent to terminate (end) the tenancy (see pages 49–52 and 67–69). If
the tenant has a lease, the landlord must give the tenant this notice a “reasonable time” before
the lease ends. If the tenant does not request an initial inspection, the landlord does not have
any other duties with respect to the initial inspection.

Scheduling the inspection

When the tenant requests an initial inspection, the landlord and the tenant must try to agree
on a mutually convenient date and time for the inspection. The inspection cannot be scheduled
earlier than two weeks before the end of the tenancy or lease term. In any event, the inspection
should be scheduled to allow the tenant ample time to perform repairs or do cleaning identified
during the initial inspection.226 The landlord must give the tenant at least 48 hours’ advance
written notice of the date and time of the inspection whether or not the parties have agreed to
a date and time for the inspection. The landlord is not required to give the 48-hour notice to the
tenant if:

• The parties have not agreed on a date and time, and the tenant no longer wants the
inspection; or

• The landlord and tenant have agreed in writing to waive (give up) the 48-hour notice
requirement.


Itemized statement

   The landlord or the landlord’s agent may perform the inspection if the tenant is not present,
unless the tenant has previously withdrawn the request for inspection.

   Based on the inspection, the landlord or agent must prepare an itemized statement of
repairs or cleaning that the landlord or agent believes the tenant should perform in order to avoid
deductions from the tenant’s security deposit. The landlord or agent must give the statement to
the tenant if the tenant is present for the inspection, or leave it inside the unit if the tenant is not
present. The landlord or agent also must give the tenant a copy of the sections of California’s
security deposit statute that list lawful uses of tenants’ security deposits.

   The security deposit statute has the effect of limiting the kinds of repairs or cleaning that
the landlord or agent may properly include in the itemized statement. Because of this statute,
the landlord cannot, for example, use the tenant’s security deposit to repair damages or correct
defects in the rental that existed when the tenant moved in or that are the result of ordinary wear
and tear.230 Since the landlord cannot use the tenant’s deposit to correct these kinds of defects,
the landlord or agent cannot list them in the itemized statement.

   Before the tenancy ends, the tenant may make the repairs or do the cleaning described in
the itemized statement, as allowed by the rental agreement, in order to avoid deductions from the
deposit.  However, the tenant cannot be required to repair defects or do cleaning if the tenant’s
security deposit could not be used properly to pay for that repair or cleaning.

Final inspection

   The landlord may perform a final inspection after the tenant has moved out of the rental. The
landlord may make a deduction from the tenant’s security deposit to repair a defect or correct a
condition:

• That was identified in the inspection statement and that the tenant did not repair or correct; or,

• That occurred after the initial inspection; or

• That was not identified during the initial inspection due to the presence of the tenant’s
possessions.

Any deduction must be reasonable in amount, and must be for a purpose permitted by
the security deposit statute.233 Twenty-one calendar days (or less) after the tenancy ends, the
landlord must refund any portion of the security deposit that remains after the landlord has made
any lawful deductions (see pages 24–26, 53–54)

Thank you, I really appreciate all the input of info you provided.

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

My wife sends a packet with instructions on the move out and what is expected as soon as I give or get a notice of termination. Same instructions they get when they move in. Pretty redundant. Most of my tenants end up calling me and I verbally have to go through it anyway. When they call. Most don’t. The info is there but most don’t read it. It’s pretty frustrating to explainin info already given.

Imo sending a notice is just stupid. The lease states what is expected of you along with everything else in the packet I give tenants when they move in.

The lease doesn’t state me requesting it in written form, and that I have right to request for one, but when I did (twice), it was denied.

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

You're also right that he didn't "send" your deposit letter within the 21 day limit. 22 days is not 21. So, he broke that law. According to the law, this alone means he can't keep any of your deposit.

From the handbook:

What if the landlord doesn’t provide a full
refund, or a statement of deductions and a
refund of amounts not deducted, by the end of
the 21-day period as required by law? According
to a California Supreme Court decision, the
landlord loses the right to keep any of the
security deposit and must return the entire
deposit to you.

Also, by law, they need to provide you with receipts for the work they did and supplies they had to buy, since the total was more than $126 - or - you waived your right to receive them. BUT, you can't waive this right any sooner than 60 days before you move out, and the landlord has to give you a notice that explains your rights to receive receipts in a written waiver that you sign. Which of course you didn't and the landlord didn't do this right either, if he just stuck it in the lease somewhere.

The deductions must all be reasonable, and the hourly labor must be reasonable if their own employees do the work.

Basically, it's my opinion you will get your full deposit back, because the landlord didn't follow the laws. You would win on that alone. Judges have to follow the law.

But, the judge would also see that the deductions were not reasonable. And that the landlord refused to do an inspection that you requested.

It's my opinion, you might even be able to get punitive damages. If a landlord doesn't deal in good faith, the judge can award you punitive damages:

If you prove to the court that the landlord
acted in “bad faith” in refusing to return your
security deposit, the court can order the landlord
to pay you the amount of the improperly withheld
deposit, plus up to twice the amount of the
security deposit as a “bad faith” penalty. The
court can award a bad faith penalty in addition to
actual damages whenever the facts of the case
warrant—even if the tenant has not requested
the penalty.

So, if I was you, I'd send them a demand letter for your full deposit because they didn't follow CA laws and have dealt with you in bad faith, and if you don't receive the rest of your deposit by _______ (give them a week max), you're going to sue them in small claims court for the amount they withheld, your court costs and punitive damages of twice your deposit amount. And then, if they don't do it, go to court and if you don't know how to present your case I would just say:

Your Honor, I believe the landlord withheld my security deposit money in bad faith. He also didn't follow the laws regarding my request for an initial inspection, nor the 21 day requirement to mail my security deposit to me, nor the receipts for the deductions as required by law, and the deductions are unreasonable. And according to the law, they must refund my money because they didn't follow these laws. And since they didn't deal with me in good faith, you are also allowed to give me punitive damages of twice my security deposit, and my court fees.

And then I'd hand the clerk to give to the judge a printout of the CA Dept of Consumer Affairs handbook from the link I gave you, if you're not comfortable figuring out which codes you should quote. Small claims court is casual and you're not supposed to be expected to be a lawyer. It doesn't hurt, though, to be able to hand the judge a copy of the law to make it easy for him/her.

Go get em. They deserve it.

Yes, I’m really nervous for this is the first time this ever happen to me. But I will take your advice solidly and put it to practice before I stand before the judge. Great info.

[Hal Roach]

search the public records and determine how often the crooks have been to court....Judges hate repeat offender landlords, but if they are squeaky clean, it will be more challenging. I moved out of a monthly rental in June, and had my deposit deposited in my bank account within 10 minutes of giving her the key. Minus 9 Dollars for cleaning...I then write the place a great review on Google....on my own will. How are their reviews? Another place to check if you can't find court records.

OK me the names involved and the jurisdiction and I will run them, if you cant.

[Electrician4you]

Originally Posted by ChiYou

The lease doesn’t state me requesting it in written form, and that I have right to request for one, but when I did (twice), it was denied.

Then you have every right to take the LL to court. Not your fault they are idiots. The “we don’t do pre inspection walks” won’t hold up because they are bound by law to do it. Even when I gave the info to tenants I only had one take me up on it. It’s a pretty simple process and it takes a hour or so. I still do another inspection once everything is moved out. This is where I find that stain or tear covered up by a couch or table leg. Also there is usually damage that isn’t easily seen with furniture and desks cluttering the area.

Take them to court bring your proof of demand for a walk through. And whatever other proof you have for anything you want to dispute as back charges. Including the over 21 day itemized security refund. . You’ll need to follow the proper procedures.

Imo I would make it short and sweet. They violated the 21 day security deposit refund which entitles you to receive your money back and possibly up to two times the deposit of a judge finds the deposit was kept by the LL in bad faith. Way I see it if the LL or tenant do not follow the law they each deserve to pay.
In the 24 years I have been doing this I kept a partial of a deposit twice. One was a tenant who painted the property the other was a tenant with are that used the carpet as a scratch post. One was if I remember right 800 bucks the other was 1200. One threatened to sue me and I told him to go ahead. He bounced a rent check twice and did not give proper notice. Never heard from him again.

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by Hal Roach

search the public records and determine how often the crooks have been to court....Judges hate repeat offender landlords, but if they are squeaky clean, it will be more challenging. I moved out of a monthly rental in June, and had my deposit deposited in my bank account within 10 minutes of giving her the key. Minus 9 Dollars for cleaning...I then write the place a great review on Google....on my own will. How are their reviews? Another place to check if you can't find court records.

OK me the names involved and the jurisdiction and I will run them, if you cant.

Good and bad together on good from 1 star to 4 star

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by Hal Roach

search the public records and determine how often the crooks have been to court....Judges hate repeat offender landlords, but if they are squeaky clean, it will be more challenging. I moved out of a monthly rental in June, and had my deposit deposited in my bank account within 10 minutes of giving her the key. Minus 9 Dollars for cleaning...I then write the place a great review on Google....on my own will. How are their reviews? Another place to check if you can't find court records.

OK me the names involved and the jurisdiction and I will run them, if you cant.

Will do, where exactly do I go for the resource, is info online too or physically somewhere?

[ChiYou]

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

Then you have every right to take the LL to court. Not your fault they are idiots. The “we don’t do pre inspection walks” won’t hold up because they are bound by law to do it. Even when I gave the info to tenants I only had one take me up on it. It’s a pretty simple process and it takes a hour or so. I still do another inspection once everything is moved out. This is where I find that stain or tear covered up by a couch or table leg. Also there is usually damage that isn’t easily seen with furniture and desks cluttering the area.

Take them to court bring your proof of demand for a walk through. And whatever other proof you have for anything you want to dispute as back charges. Including the over 21 day itemized security refund. . You’ll need to follow the proper procedures.

Imo I would make it short and sweet. They violated the 21 day security deposit refund which entitles you to receive your money back and possibly up to two times the deposit of a judge finds the deposit was kept by the LL in bad faith. Way I see it if the LL or tenant do not follow the law they each deserve to pay.
In the 24 years I have been doing this I kept a partial of a deposit twice. One was a tenant who painted the property the other was a tenant with are that used the carpet as a scratch post. One was if I remember right 800 bucks the other was 1200. One threatened to sue me and I told him to go ahead. He bounced a rent check twice and did not give proper notice. Never heard from him again.

Will do��. My concern again is what you said to “prove”, I didn’t have anything in written form, though they don’t have it stated I must have it in written. I’m afraid this would just be a “he said, she said”. But I really do hope the judge will consider the law breaking they did. All I could prob hope is for the landlord to prove he had send me a written notice, which he will fail to because he never did, and as far as the 21 days, I hope I will nail them with that and the bad faith, since I tried to dispute this with them multiple time for less money and they still won’t give a cent back. They think they’re entitled to the whole but gave me a discount and kept approx. 60% of the deposit. Although, I’ll be burning my bridge with them, I hope they will learn to treat not just me but anyone fairly in the future.