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While I agree that you're generally going about this for the wrong reasons, you might be able to perform an action that is called "anticipatory breach." However, your state laws may not allow this, or would limit your recovery.
Basically, this applies where you are put into a position where you reasonable grounds to believe that the other party is not going to fulfill their end of the bargain. In this case, the landlord might stop paying the loan and you would be out of a place to live, and have to sue the landlord for damages (security deposit, higher rent cost, short notice moving fees, etc.)
If this is allowed in Illinois, then you need to send a letter to your landlord telling her that you are going to stop performance unless she provides you (with some time period, 30 days sounds reasonable, although state law may have a definite term) with assurances of her ability to perform. She will either send you a response with proof that she is able to perform (maintain the mortgage for the duration of your lease), or she won't respond at all (because it's unlikely that she will say "dang, ya caught me!").
If she doesn't respond (30 days should be enough time), then you have grounds to stop performance on the contract, basically stop paying rent and move out.
Note that this may not be available under Illinois law.
Also, the idea could completely backfire, you are basically putting it in a judge's hands if you stop paying (small claims court when she sues you for not paying rent) as to whether you had "reasonable" grounds to demand proof of her ability to perform.
That's pretty much the only way I can think of for you to get out of this without some malfeasance on the part of the landlord. Based only on what you've said here, my guess is you probably don't have sufficient grounds to demand proof of ability to perform. So you'd be on the hook for the whole lease.
No landlord is going to allow you to run their credit, period. They can rent it to someone else. I understand your concern and certainly see your point but its never going to happen. You could however, run a public record on them WITHOUT them knowing......this can be done online also with just their full name and address. At least then you would have some information for your own piece of mind and could make a more educated decision about renting from them.
The public record sounds like the best option! I did not think about that. I should have done that when I rented from that other landlord.
You are right, I am looking for legal loopholes to get out of the lease. If I cannot find one, and if I cannot find a sublessor, then I will continue to pay the rent and will occupy the unit/uphold all terms of the lease. But if I can find a loophole, and taking advantage of it is 100% legal and legit, then I will pursue it. I dont feel guilty about looking for loopholes; the landlord's father is actually a lawyer; I dont doubt for a minute that if THEY could find a loophole to bend ME over, that they wouldnt hesitate to utilize that to get extra money out of *me*. Especially since they are losing money on the monthly cash flow. Business is business.
There is more to the story about the landlord; I actually did find a sublessor who put down a security deposit, but the sublessor then "tricked" the landlord into giving her the security deposit back and the girl backed out of the deal, etc. Long story. There are some other questionable things going on, but nothing that I think I could use to get out of the lease early. I can describe these other things in another post.
Since you're looking for a 'legal loophole', why not sign up for the active military. Once you show your orders for boot camp, your landlord will be required to let you out of the lease that you signed - without a sublet. Everybody wins!!
While I agree that you're generally going about this for the wrong reasons, you might be able to perform an action that is called "anticipatory breach." However, your state laws may not allow this, or would limit your recovery.
Basically, this applies where you are put into a position where you reasonable grounds to believe that the other party is not going to fulfill their end of the bargain. In this case, the landlord might stop paying the loan and you would be out of a place to live, and have to sue the landlord for damages (security deposit, higher rent cost, short notice moving fees, etc.)
If this is allowed in Illinois, then you need to send a letter to your landlord telling her that you are going to stop performance unless she provides you (with some time period, 30 days sounds reasonable, although state law may have a definite term) with assurances of her ability to perform. She will either send you a response with proof that she is able to perform (maintain the mortgage for the duration of your lease), or she won't respond at all (because it's unlikely that she will say "dang, ya caught me!").
If she doesn't respond (30 days should be enough time), then you have grounds to stop performance on the contract, basically stop paying rent and move out.
Note that this may not be available under Illinois law.
Also, the idea could completely backfire, you are basically putting it in a judge's hands if you stop paying (small claims court when she sues you for not paying rent) as to whether you had "reasonable" grounds to demand proof of her ability to perform.
That's pretty much the only way I can think of for you to get out of this without some malfeasance on the part of the landlord. Based only on what you've said here, my guess is you probably don't have sufficient grounds to demand proof of ability to perform. So you'd be on the hook for the whole lease.
Hi Zman0,
Thanks for this info, you are right, I have never heard of this in Illinois, maybe it exists but is rare. Either way it appears that I really am "stuck" living here unless I can find someone who will actually sub-lease the unit.
The only other thing that I may have a case about...The unit is actually pretty nice, it has all of the amenities, granite, stainless steel, washer and dryer (rare in Chicago), dishwasher etc. The problem is the square footage is too small, or, at least, it is too small compared to the price. I was trying to avoid renting it for less, as that opens up a bad scenario for the renter if they decide to renew, as the landlord is going to want them to pay at least what I was paying.
I was advertising the unit on CraigsList and a lot of people came to see it - about 15 people and they all said it was nice, but too small for the price. I finally had one girl come to look at the unit and she liked it, she said it was a little too small, but she wanted me to take the apartment. She wanted to know if she could write me a check for a security deposit, if I would take it off of the market for her. I told her, "Ok, I will make an agreement with you, you give me the check for the security deposit (one month's rent, $1245) and I will hold the funds. If you apply, and are not approved by the landlord, then i will of course give you your security deposit back, but if you are approved and back out, then I will keep the security deposit". This is a VERY standard arrangement here in Chicago. She agreed, and wrote me the check. I emailed her the landlord's info so that she could get in touch with her, and begin the approval process.
Per the agreement, I went ahead and cashed the check the next day. Again, this is the normal process here in Chicago, because here in the Lakeview market, apartment renting is very competitive, people will ask you to take the apartment off of the market, shop around for a better deal, take it, and then tell you they dont want your apartment. So you are suffering an opportunity loss because you took the unit off the market and could not rent it to someone else who wanted it. You have to cash the check RIGHT AWAY, because otherwise, they will find another unit and put a stop payment on the check.
Well, a day after I cashed the check, the applicant and her father called the landlord screaming bloody murder because I cashed the check. The landlord called me, asking, "What is going on????" I told her that I made an agreement with her, that I would hold the funds until she got approved, and if she signs the lease, those funds would be forwarded to the landlord as her security deposit, which would be held by the landlord until the end of the lease next June (by the way, the landlord TOLD me to do it this way beefore I even advertised the unit). Anyway, the landlord started yelling at me, telling me "FROM HERE ON OUT, YOU WILL ASK THE APPLICANT TO WRITE THE CHECK TO ME AND MAIL THE CHECK TO ME, IT IS MY PROPERTY AND IT IS MY INVESTMENT AND I HAVE TO PROTECT IT, HER FATHER IS SCREAMING AT ME, BLAH BLAH etc". I told the landlord that I am not spending the money, and that her father can scream all he wants, but she is an adult and made a deal with me. She calmed down a little bit and hung up.
So, a week went by, and the applicant was approved. The landlord's husband (actually a real nice guy) emailed me and advised me that the applicant is approved, that we will meet at the apartment on Sunday to sign the lease, but in order to keep a paper trail, to MAIL the applicant her security deposit back, in the form of a cashier's check, and then the applicant will write the landlord a check for the security deposit. I called him and advised him that if I send her a cashier's check, she will simply back out of the deal, we will lose the renter, AND we will lose the earnest money, He said "No, I am 100% confident that she has every intent to rent the unit, etc etc". I said welll ooookkkkk and sent the check.
Well, lo and behold, that next Saturday night, I got am email from her, backing out. I called the landlord and adivsed them she is backing out, they went ballistic, as they now realized they had been mislead by the applicant, and we now lost out on the earnest money.
The next morning, the landlord "accidently" called me and I picked up the phone and she was talking negatively me about me, saying "What the f*ck? I mean what the f*ck? Why would he want to leave, etc etc". She is showing herself to be extremely angry.
So, given this information, do I have any grounds to leave early, or get some form of compensation, based on their "instruction" to me to give the applicant her money back? I have lost out on the opportunity to take a job in Dallas because of the applicant backing out, and should have been able to keep the security deposit.
With all due respect I really think it would be a very good idea for you to pursue some schooling in contract law before embarking upon any more real estate missions. You seem to be under the misguided impression that because something is done "because that's the way we do it here" it is automatically legal. Far from the truth. Cheers!
Thanks for this info, you are right, I have never heard of this in Illinois, maybe it exists but is rare. Either way it appears that I really am "stuck" living here unless I can find someone who will actually sub-lease the unit.
It's something that is available under the UCC, whether there is a complimentary provision in your common law is another question. But it is rarely used because of the inherent risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartGXL
The only other thing that I may have a case about...The unit is actually pretty nice, it has all of the amenities, granite, stainless steel, washer and dryer (rare in Chicago), dishwasher etc. The problem is the square footage is too small, or, at least, it is too small compared to the price. I was trying to avoid renting it for less, as that opens up a bad scenario for the renter if they decide to renew, as the landlord is going to want them to pay at least what I was paying.
If moving is so important to you, I say rent it out at whatever you can get. You will have to cover the difference to your landlord.
Stop trying to be nice to your landlord, she is giving you a hard time, why should you try to find her an ideal tenant? If you can sublet the apartment for less than your rent and are able to eat the loss, go ahead and do it. If your landlord loses that tenant when she tries to raise the rent, too bad.
With all due respect I really think it would be a very good idea for you to pursue some schooling in contract law before embarking upon any more real estate missions. You seem to be under the misguided impression that because something is done "because that's the way we do it here" it is automatically legal. Far from the truth. Cheers!
Well I am not really trying to go on a real estate mission, per se, I am just trying to sublease an apartment so I can move to another city. I have taken contract law classes before (I have a degree in Accountancy). When I say it is done that way here, the method I used is the same process that the leasing agencies follow, and also, I was following the (original) instructions of the landlord's father, who is a lawyer. The applicant and I had a verbal contract, and she broke the verbal contract by backing out after she had asked for us to re-do the paperwork for a paper trail. She used the "I want to re-do the security deposit so that there is a more clear paper trail" as an excuse to get her money back in advance, so that she could back out. It was pre-meditated. I probably have a case against her, as she broke a contract, but not sure it is worth the hassle. I had to delay taking this job in Dallas because she backed out. This has caused me damage, and I should have been able to keep the $1245 to help offset this damage (or at the least, split it with the landlord), but she tricked the landlord into instructing me to give it back, even tho I knew it was a bad idea to do so. But hiring an attorney etc will probably cost as much as I would get out of this girl (she is young and probably does not have much money anyway).
There are some legitimate circumstances (i.e., subleases!) but either way, I am going to promote the idea that someone has to prove that they have the legal right to rent it out. Unless someone can prove that to me, I will not rent out a unit.
Have fun living in your van down by the river, after those landlords laugh in your face and rent to someone else.
since you're looking for a 'legal loophole', why not sign up for the active military. Once you show your orders for boot camp, your landlord will be required to let you out of the lease that you signed - without a sublet. Everybody wins!!
Well, as I mentioned before, I am not aware if any specific financial problems that she may be having, *other than* the fact that she is losing oney every month on the mortgage.
I guess the root of my inquiry here, is: would her negative cash-flow situation jeopardize me in any way, that would give me legal standing to get out of the lease.
IF the landlord happens to write a bad check or even gets arrested for some crime - your still liable to pay the rent. The landlord KNEW she was renting it for less than she owes on it. If she KNEW she could make it work and hold tight then she is the one that COULD make a nice profit on it in the longhaul. MOST landlords lose money in deals. They lose money when they have to go in when a tenant moves out to clean up the mess so they can rent it out again for maximuim profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk
I can almost guarantee that there's no law on any books that says a landlord must make money on a rental. (I wish!) Otherwise, unless you specified in your contract that she must maintain a certain amount of cash in her bank account....
She could even lose the property to the bank or sell it to someone else, and you'd most likely still be bound by the rental agreement you signed. You'd have to pay someone else, but you would still be on the hook, so to speak. You have an ownership in your condo. With that comes rights AND responsibilities.
LOL!!! ME TOO!!!! Being a landlord BITES! Been there, done that. NO THANKS! Is there a law on the books that says if the landlord finds out AFTERWARDS the renters gave false/misleading refrences that we can go after them? Even when one tries to follow up on these and thinks they covered all their bases it is easy to get "friends" to cover for you if you were renting from individuals. Sucks for the landlord then that is trying to do right.
Yes, if the landlord sold the property you are still liable to pay the rent for the remaining part of the lease UNLESS an agreement was reached with ALL parties.
While there are some "landlords that have taken the money and NOT paid the mortgage some renters have been tossed out. Most don't have much to stand on. Who would you sue? The broke landlord that has 15+ foreclosed properties and assets seized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2
Actually, if she is loosing money on the condos, she may be using the loss to offset gains in other areas on her income tax. She could be saving a bundle on taxes.
At any rate, you have a legal contract. Her financial situation has no bearing on your contract..
Will say that the one year we had loses on rental properties it was REALLY NICE on our income taxes. I think we made more money that year because of the loses than we did when we made a profit on the rentals. This also happens all the time in the business world. A very lucrative and profitable business will buy one that is not in order to offset their profits. It boils down to: pay Uncle Sam $50K or spend $25K on myself and pay a LOT LESS in taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartGXL
I probably will buy a house once I move to Dallas (one reason I never bought a property in Chicago was because I never knew when I was going to be leaving this area). But, i will still promote the idea of tenants having the right to, at least, verify that the landlord owns the property they are leasing out.
I would REFUSE to let ANYONE like a prospective tenant run a credit report on me. For one we own a corporation and everytime a credit report is ran it lowers your score. NO WAY AT ALL!!!! I'd find someone else. I don't know who they are at all and you think I'd give THEM my personal financial information that COULD be used to ruin MY CREDIT! NO WAY!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartGXL
There are some legitimate circumstances (i.e., subleases!) but either way, I am going to promote the idea that someone has to prove that they have the legal right to rent it out. Unless someone can prove that to me, I will not rent out a unit.
You can look up in some areas the tax rolls and see who owns a property. That is not that hard to do. Yet, someone COULD be acting on behalf of another party to carry out all contracts. I'm not about to let someone I don't know see all of my business affairs that effect who can do what for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texgrl
The landlords financial situation has nothing to do with it unless they were accepting your monthly rent then in turn NOT paying the mortgage.
This is the ONLY thing that could get her out of the lease but it would take the bank foreclosing on the property. If the landlord is making the payment she really doesn't know and really has no right to see the payments, know the amounts, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texgrl
No landlord is going to allow you to run their credit, period. They can rent it to someone else. I understand your concern and certainly see your point but its never going to happen. You could however, run a public record on them WITHOUT them knowing......this can be done online also with just their full name and address. At least then you would have some information for your own piece of mind and could make a more educated decision about renting from them.
EXACTLY!!! I would flat out REFUSE to turn over my info to let somene I don't know at all to run my credit. Ever heard of CREDIT FRAUD! IDENTITY THEFT! The landlord does not know you. They are NOT going to give you their info to run a credit report on them. If a landlord DOES do that I'd be scared they were doing other things that could jeopardize the validity of the contract, fall into financial ruin (if they are not watching who they give this info to), etc.
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