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I am currently fighting with the apartment complex that I just moved out of. They are trying to charge me for cleaning cabinets and carpets, both of which were in the same shape when I moved in 3 years ago. They mysteriously lost my move in sheet, and I don't have a copy of it or pictures to prove this. I only have pictures of when I moved out. What chance do I have in small claims court of getting my full deposit back, either with the "it was in the same shape when I moved in, and its their fault they lost my move in sheet" or the "general wear and tear" plead?
I'm in San Diego by the way. Everything that I read is very vague, and doesn't show who has the burden of proof, even though they lost my move in sheet.
There's no denying the condition of the unit now as both of you have pictures. The question is was it like that before. If you're the one trying to prove it was, then the burden of proof is on you. But realyy, it's not like we're talking about damages here. We're talking about cleaning, which regardless of how "clean" you think the unit was or wasn't when you moved in, it needs to be clean when you move out. If it wasn't and there are pictures to prove it, then I wouldn't even waste your time or money going to court with this.
You didn't say in your original post whether you actually cleaned or not, which would lead me to think you didn't clean as well as you might have, and you know this.
The landlord may have lost your move in sheet, but you should have retained a copy as well, including their signature of accepting it from you. That is your only method of proof.
In addition, "wear and tear" has nothing to do with cleaning.
I would say if you didn't clean per their move out expectations, you have very little chance of getting that money.
Thank you BabyTarHeelz. To me it sounds like we are both trying to prove it either was or wasn't in the same condition as when I moved in. I don't see how its left up to me, wouldn't they have just as much burden to prove it was in better shape at move in? I'm just going out of my mind with this whole thing. The complex changed companies about a year ago, and ever since its been a nightmare. They couldn't find my original lease for the longest time. Yes I should have kept a copy of the lease and the move in sheet, and I probably do somewhere, but who the heck puts that in their back pocket for 3 years waiting for apt management to try and get more out of me than what they should.
Lacerta, I did actually clean. The apartment is 10 times cleaner than when I moved in 3 years ago. I appreciate the responses here, not sure why you would accuse me of not cleaning just because I didn't mention it, or you would assume that I didn't clean as well as I think I did, but oh well thats probably your issue. I don't see how I have to clean to their expectations when the law says that I only have to return the place in the condition I received it.
Lacerta, I did actually clean. The apartment is 10 times cleaner than when I moved in 3 years ago. I appreciate the responses here, not sure why you would accuse me of not cleaning just because I didn't mention it, or you would assume that I didn't clean as well as I think I did, but oh well thats probably your issue. I don't see how I have to clean to their expectations when the law says that I only have to return the place in the condition I received it.
My statement was not meant to be an attack. Your original post was about withholding a cleaning deposit, yet instead of saying "I cleaned it very well", you said "both of which were in the same shape when I moved in 3 years ago". My interpretation was "it was dirty when I got there, so I feel justified leaving it dirty". I didn't think you "didn't clean as well as [you] think [you] did", I thought you were trying to justify not cleaning at all. Whether or not that was what you meant, it was how it came across.
In most areas, unless it is stated in writing (and not lost) that the place was "less than clean" when you received it, it is assumed that a new tenant will get a unit in clean condition, and be expected to leave it in clean condition.
To be more specific though, what does your lease or move out sheet say about move outs? Are you expected to have the carpets professionally shampooed? If so, and you didn't, that is a valid charge, regardless of the condition you received it in, unless otherwise stated in writing. Cleaning the cabinets should be a pretty minimal expense. I would say no more than $200 total for the two items in question, unless it was a large house. How much are they charging you?
I don't have the lease or the move out sheet. They told me I had to have the place "ready to rent" when I moved out. It was in fact ready to rent, but I still don't see how this would hold up when the law only says that I have to return it in the same condition I received it in. Not sure how a lease, move out sheet, or management policy would override the law, but no big deal. Thats the thing, my deposit wasn't much, maybe $200, but to me its an ethical issue at this point because of the way I've been treated by this place since they changed management. I had my apartment entered unanounced, walk through schedules completely missed, they "lost" my move in sheet and the original lease, and can't even tell me how much my deposit was specifically. They have one charge on the bill that says "price optimizer" and they are trying to tell me thats included the pro-rated cost of my last month, even though they already gave me the bill for that and its been paid when I signed the last 30 day notice. Their excuses for "losing" my important paper work, well they changed management and it's "not their fault". If anything I was hoping to call attention to a management team that is a complete joke, but it sounds like I'm going about that the wrong way. I'm probably wasting my time by now. I really appreciate all of your responses, sounds like I need to just let it go.
Your signed rental agreement, condition sheet and canceled check/receipt is all you need...
So much the better for you if mgmt lost their copy and I wouldn't loose sleep over it. I would have a hard time staying upset if I also lost these very important documents...
I only charge for damage beyond normal wear and tear and unpaid rent and fees.
Dirt is never wear and tear as my Grandmother told me at a very early age. She told me her mother was very proud that her old and worn out home always was clean enough to eat off the floor and the windows sparkled.
I got the same issue with my last apartment. They charged me for cleaning, but I cleaned apartment very well. If somebody can advise what to do, I will appreciate it. Apartment is in Arizona.
Here is my comment on google maps:
When I moved out I didn't get my security deposit back. When I called they told me that "We charged you for cleaning. Carpet was a disaster. Oven was not clean, refrigerator". Which is lie, because I thoroughly cleaned everything by myself. I windexed everything, refrigerator, oven, bathtub etc. and I vacuumed the carpet. Even friends who helped me to move out sad that apartment looks perfect before cleaning!
More over, I rented this apartment bi-monthly, so I paid above premium for it, and they made good extra $$ on me. But they decided to make extra $200.
I'm very frustrated with dishonesty of the management. Don't rent, or if you are renting and moving out photo document the condition of everything.
I will try to dispute is through the BBB. I'm not sure that I need to go to small claim court because of my time..
Last edited by nick.leviman; 04-30-2009 at 05:26 PM..
I got the same issue with my last apartment. They charged me for cleaning, but I cleaned apartment very well. If somebody can advise what to do, I will appreciate it. Apartment is in Arizona.
Here is my comment on google maps:
When I moved out I didn't get my security deposit back. When I called they told me that "We charged you for cleaning. Carpet was a disaster. Oven was not clean, refrigerator". Which is lie, because I thoroughly cleaned everything by myself. I windexed everything, refrigerator, oven, bathtub etc. and I vacuumed the carpet. Even friends who helped me to move out sad that apartment looks perfect before cleaning!
More over, I rented this apartment bi-monthly, so I paid above premium for it, and they made good extra $$ on me. But they decided to make extra $200.
I'm very frustrated with dishonesty of the management. Don't rent, or if you are renting and moving out photo document the condition of everything.
I will try to dispute is through the BBB. I'm not sure that I need to go to small claim court because of my time..
Best bet is take your proof and put if before a judge... anything else lacks finality...
Anything you have that documents your efforts and the condition is what you need to bring... I've seen receipts for cleaning supplies, professional carpet cleaning, pictures and even a report from a home inspection company used as proof...
Generally, you must make a formal written demand prior to filing for a court date.
Just tell the management that you disagree with there findings, ask them to verify and tell them what you expect as a resolution...
Good Luck
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