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Give me a break. There are TONS of apartment complexes who won't let you hang things, even if you don't drill holes. The bottom line is that it's all subject to interpretation, and no matter who thinks what, property managers have wide discretion to run THEIR property. The bottom line is that it's THEIRS to do with as they please, as long as they are not overstepping the boundaries.
If you had a situation where preferential treatment was given to an atheist over a Buddhist, that's clear discrimination. If a property owner says you can't put a paper swastika on your front door, you can't. Has nothing to do with your religion; it's their property and you will follow their rules.
No praying is necessary, since I can read. If I ever saw a few of these in a lease, I'd run like the wind from that kind of crazy.
Dedicated trash pickup? Do you mean you're going to knock on the door and collect the trash yourself? I'd never live in a building you owned, but I'll pay you to come get my trash a couple of times a week now.
Will you demand a certain amount of trash per week and fine them if they don't meet the quota? Will you demand entry to hunt down more trash?
Are you just speculating about what you would do, or are you a landlord? Just kind of curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by revelated
Pray that you never end up in a complex owned by me.
I mean I'm reading all of these responses from people complaining about not having candles. Let me tell you something - there are tasteful candles, and then there are inappropriate candles. Tasteful candles - one or maybe two slim candles on a dinner table - no problem. Having candles all along the fireplace and all along the windowsills and all over the tables - nuh uh.
The city had hope I don't end up managing an apartment. The contract would be clear.
No dogs. Period. Any other pet is fine, but must be kept in the house, on a leash, or in a cage at all times.
No musical instruments played after 7pm. Rent the clubhouse if you want to practice all night, with the volume low enough that the building next door can't hear anything.
Dedicated trash pickup - so we can track who's not putting the trash out properly and fine them.
MUST park your vehicle in your garage; every day you don't is a fine. Second vehicles must be tagged clearly, visitors must get a visitor's pass with the apartment they're going to.
Speeders get a speeding ticket like any other region.
Occupancy limits to every apartment. 1 bedroom is 3 people at ANY time. If you have any more than that, friends or otherwise, you need to go to the 2+ bedrooms and pay for that privilege.
Religion can be practiced as long as there is no impact to others. In the case of the OP, the landlord can argue that such religion might have proved distracting or offensive to neighbors and as such, they chose not to renew the contract which is their right. That's the reason the month-to-month lease is worded the way it is - either party can terminate anytime. If the person did not want to have the issue they should have been in a lease - then if the lease was terminated due to this, there would be a clear case for FHA violation.
No praying is necessary, since I can read. If I ever saw a few of these in a lease, I'd run like the wind from that kind of crazy.
You just made my point for me.
If you don't like a landlord's terms, don't sign them. If you're month-to-month you have no obligation to stick around.
Quote:
Dedicated trash pickup? Do you mean you're going to knock on the door and collect the trash yourself? I'd never live in a building you owned, but I'll pay you to come get my trash a couple of times a week now.
Nope...means every tenant will be given a large trash can for their weekly trash, just like houses. No central trash repository where people dump couches and crap. If I get reports from the disposal company that you're trashing stuff that's subject to recycle, you're getting fined until you change your ways. Or...you can leave.
Quote:
Are you just speculating about what you would do, or are you a landlord? Just kind of curious...
I'm making a point which you assisted me in doing. If you're on month-to-month and the apartment manager wants you to change something that you don't want to change, leave. Don't sit there and try to yell about your rights. You won't be able to prove discrimination, because the property manager OWNS the property. They didn't refuse to rent to you, they gave you an option to change something. Month to month means they can change their desires or restrictions on a whim and you have little to no recourse.
As I said, if the OP was in a lease and the apartment manager all of a sudden tried to pull this crap, they'd be liable for breaking the lease. All this talk about religious discrimination is moot based on the facts presented. There was no discussion against the religion; only about having something on the property that the manager didn't approve of.
Give me a break. There are TONS of apartment complexes who won't let you hang things, even if you don't drill holes. The bottom line is that it's all subject to interpretation, and no matter who thinks what, property managers have wide discretion to run THEIR property. The bottom line is that it's THEIRS to do with as they please, as long as they are not overstepping the boundaries.
If you had a situation where preferential treatment was given to an atheist over a Buddhist, that's clear discrimination. If a property owner says you can't put a paper swastika on your front door, you can't. Has nothing to do with your religion; it's their property and you will follow their rules.
If you are replying to me, nothing I mentioned hangs on the wall.
And even if it did, that would only apply to a lease that prohibits hanging things.
I also never mentioned anything about items on the outside of the front door, or in any outdoor area, common or tenant specific.
Actually, while my friend is leasing the property, it is her's to do with as she pleases, so long as she doesn't cause damage, act illegally, or violate the original terms.
While we are talking about the original terms, her lease says that tenants who have completed the original lease are month to month tenants under all the rules of the orignial lease. That isn't the exact language, but she pulled it out and read everything after all this started. So, all these clauses you are clinging to are completely irrelevant to this situation.
While we are talking about the original terms, her lease says that tenants who have completed the original lease are month to month tenants under all the rules of the orignial lease. That isn't the exact language, but she pulled it out and read everything after all this started. So, all these clauses you are clinging to are completely irrelevant to this situation.
Negative.
A month to month agreement can be changed at the discretion of the property manager. They do have to give written notice - but I'm willing to stack chips that they stuck a minor, ambiguous clause that covers the fact that the property manager retains the right to approve or disapprove items within the four walls, even if said item was not "attached" to the house. For example, if a person brought a gun into their apartment and the manager discovered it as part of a routine or scheduled maintenance, they can ask you remove it. If you don't, they can do what they feel they need.
I guarantee you there is such a clause in the agreement, even if it doesn't seem to apply.
If you don't like a landlord's terms, don't sign them. If you're month-to-month you have no obligation to stick around.
Nope...means every tenant will be given a large trash can for their weekly trash, just like houses. No central trash repository where people dump couches and crap. If I get reports from the disposal company that you're trashing stuff that's subject to recycle, you're getting fined until you change your ways. Or...you can leave.
I'm making a point which you assisted me in doing. If you're on month-to-month and the apartment manager wants you to change something that you don't want to change, leave. Don't sit there and try to yell about your rights. You won't be able to prove discrimination, because the property manager OWNS the property. They didn't refuse to rent to you, they gave you an option to change something. Month to month means they can change their desires or restrictions on a whim and you have little to no recourse.
As I said, if the OP was in a lease and the apartment manager all of a sudden tried to pull this crap, they'd be liable for breaking the lease. All this talk about religious discrimination is moot based on the facts presented. There was no discussion against the religion; only about having something on the property that the manager didn't approve of.
See other post about what the original lease said about month to month terms.
Of course it is discrimation. That is perfectly clear. I don't believe he has given notice to anyone else who owns a table, candle, statue or knife. He gave notice because he didn't like what it meant.
My question was not "Is it discrimination?" My question was what can be done. And perhaps nothing can be done about it. But, she is taking steps to get proof she needs, and to make the public aware of the situation. Hopefully, he will not get away with this.
Last edited by lfrench; 12-12-2009 at 04:36 PM..
Reason: concise
As I said, if the OP was in a lease and the apartment manager all of a sudden tried to pull this crap, they'd be liable for breaking the lease. All this talk about religious discrimination is moot based on the facts presented. There was no discussion against the religion; only about having something on the property that the manager didn't approve of.
Sorry, but if the landlord chooses to forbid religious items (crosses, pentagrams, what have you) as decorative items within the confines of the apartment that do not hang on the wall or impact the actual property in any way just because he doesn't approve of the religion, they are indulging in religious discrimination and, much as you like to say that you OWN the property, there are regulations such as the Fair Housing laws that restrict what discrimination you can indulge yourself in. There are 7 protected classes, religion being among them.
Here's an example from the HUD website regarding discrimination against the disabled:
[SIZE=2]Additional Protection if You Have a Disability[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]If you or someone associated with you:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Have a physical or mental disability (including hearing, mobility and visual impairments, chronic alcoholism, chronic mental illness, AIDS, AIDS Related Complex and mental retardation) that substantially limits one or more major life activities[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Have a record of such a disability or[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Are regarded as having such a disability[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]your landlord may not:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Refuse to let you make reasonable modifications to your dwelling or common use areas, at your expense, if necessary for the disabled person to use the housing. (Where reasonable, the landlord may permit changes only if you agree to restore the property to its original condition when you move.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Refuse to make reasonable accommodations in rules, policies, practices or services if necessary for the disabled person to use the housing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Example: A building with a "no pets" policy must allow a visually impaired tenant to keep a guide dog.[/SIZE]
Does that sound like the Fair Housing laws are interested in allowing you to discriminate just because you OWN the property?
Does the tenant want to stay as long as the candles are OK?
Many apartments have no smoking policies and some cities, at least one I know has a city ordinance against smoking inside your own apartment
I have seen limitations on candles, incense, fireworks... etc.
I don't smoke - doesn't agree with me, personally - and as a real estate agent I'm well aware of the problems of smoke odor in houses on the market, but I'll be interested to see what happens when someone challenges those cities that have "no smoking inside your own home" ordinances. I'm thinking that they're going to run into Constitutional issues with that one and sooner or later someone's going to take it to the Supreme Court. It's one thing for a landlord to say "No smoking in property I own," quite another for the government to do so.
I don't smoke - doesn't agree with me, personally - and as a real estate agent I'm well aware of the problems of smoke odor in houses on the market, but I'll be interested to see what happens when someone challenges those cities that have "no smoking inside your own home" ordinances. I'm thinking that they're going to run into Constitutional issues with that one and sooner or later someone's going to take it to the Supreme Court. It's one thing for a landlord to say "No smoking in property I own," quite another for the government to do so.
Not to go too far off... last night there was a news story about new laws and several had to do with smoking... one city has no smoking in city parks and another amended the no smoking withing 20' of a doorway and it showed the News crews in a downtown saying half the street is now effectively no-smoking... previously, it was no smoking within 10 feet.
No smoking in most of Belmont, not even at home | Government > Government Bodies & Offices from AllBusiness.com (http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-regional/12137150-1.html - broken link)
Don't forget the Bay Area has teams of roving inspectors looking for people using their wood burning fireplaces too
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