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I haven't read the many responses to this. I'll simply speak to the subject which is individual responsibility AND, necessarily, accountability.
In my youth the age of "adulthood" was 21. I enlisted in the Army for Vietnam at age 19 and never looked back. Every mistake I made from that point on, and they were legion, I was responsible and accountable for. I decidedly shared the blame for the end of a 25 year marriage that ended in divorce and left me destitute at age 48 and any financial issues that preceded that.
By the same token, I take a lot of the credit for having put my financial house in order, providing a decent life for my current wife and me, weathering the bursting of the housing bubble and the fall of the markets, coming out whole and being able to move 2,000 in retirement, buy a nice house and live a carefree, if not expansive, life in retirement. My wife and I are content.
"Blame" and "fault" just don't factor in! It's my life. I'm responsible and accountable.
So where does this all leave us? We're definitely, each of us, at fault for having anything less than a million bucks plus a substantial pension in retirement. I accept that. I think everyone so far on this thread has agreed to that. It seems no longer necessary to debate, though it has been an interesting one. Thanks, OP!
Financial struggles in retirement - people's own fault or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl
So where does this all leave us? We're definitely, each of us, at fault for having anything less than a million bucks plus a substantial pension in retirement. I accept that. I think everyone so far on this thread has agreed to that. It seems no longer necessary to debate, though it has been an interesting one. Thanks, OP!
My best guess is that it leaves each of us to answer the original question for ourselves, only.
An excellent and compassionate response- answering to ourselves.
Of course there are things I could have and should have done differently (including being born a different person). I imagine that's true for many people.
I do think, as in so many possible-blame discussions, that people are fearing that less-responsible people will have their hands in our more-responsible pockets as a result of their own faulty decisions. That could be, and you won't know unless there's a judge panel on a case-by-case basis. Just like so many other general issues that can come down to individual cases.
I try to remember, as long as there is such extreme corporate welfare and DOD feeding troughs (while the soldiers are so underfunded) and so on, I should probably not try too hard to look at individual cases where it seems someone is getting over on me and all the taxpayers.
I should probably not try too hard to look at individual cases where it seems someone is getting over on me and all the taxpayers.
That is true. It would never be possible to decide each case perfectly. But maybe they could try a little harder? I see supposedly disabled people walking, standing or sitting for hours, doing all the things they supposedly could not do at a job. When they want to have fun, they don't seem very disabled. And these are not bad or dishonest people. They have just been convinced by the system, by MDs and therapists, that they cannot work.
I know a woman who had a dream of going to law school, but her therapist told her she could never do it, since, he said, she had ADD. So she went on SSDI instead. And now her daughter is following her footsteps and is mentally disabled also.
Yes I know mental illness can be very real. But these people are not staying home being mentally ill, they are out having a very active social life.
There is also an idea that people who have good jobs are fortunate. They had well-off parents who sent them to good schools. They go to work and collect big paychecks without doing very much. That is probably not true for most working Americans, even those with pretty good jobs. A lot of us worked hard to get educated and to get experience, and we still work hard.
Yes I know mental illness can be very real. But these people are not staying home being mentally ill, they are out having a very active social life.
Isolating themselves at home, with little or no socialization, is the worst thing that can happen to many (possibly most) mentally ill people. You do not have to be locked in a dungeon in a straightjacket to be mentally ill. As another poster said so eloquently, for disability your mental impairments have to relate more or less directly to your actual abilitiy to do your job (that you were trained for), or any reasonable job, of any kind within your skills set or close to it. If your whole training and job experience is or was desk work/computers I wouldn't imagine you'd be forced to operate a forklift if you had mental problems and that was the only job available.
You people have strange ideas about disability. You believe you just file a claim and instantaneous get government disability. In some severe listed impairments, it is true. However for mental disability, with the exception of severe developmental disorders and retardation, it requires much more evidence of disability with historical longitudinal behavior in employment.
It is necessary to have worked on a job to see the behavior and, of course, you need the employment credits to qualify. You have to meet the statutory requirements that the disability will last more than one year or result in death. You would not be able to work to the substantial statutory level of employment and unable to work any job at that level that exist in the economy.
Just because one can laugh, dance or enjoy some aspects of life does not mean that they are not considered disabled. Those of you who work 40 or more hours a week know how difficult it is to work. Just because you see someone doing an activity for a few hours, does not mean that they can meet the longer, repetitive tasks of a job.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 08-29-2010 at 12:54 AM..
Yes I know mental illness can be very real. But these people are not staying home being mentally ill, they are out having a very active social life.
But unless you are living with them you do not know their story. The first thing a psychologist will tell a depressed patient is to get out and be with people. The patient needs to interact with others as part of the therapy. That person may even be taking drugs to help the process.
Just because you see someone interacting socially does not indicate they cannot have serious mental or emotional problems. The true definition of a sociopath is not the sullen, evil faced, bad guy but is actually a sweet talking person who plays well with others one day and murders them the next.
Unless one has access to another person's medical history, they truly cannot determine the extent of the person's mental state. Having a social life is not necessarily an indication of mental health.
Back on topic. I don't think the word "fault" should be used when talking about financial circumstances. By the time we reach retirement age many things can happen in our lives to prevent our having enough to retire financially sound. It's possible to make the effort but fail for one reason or another. Even if we start saving in our 20's it may not be enough when we are 65 as many people are finding out today.
People can have "financial struggles" despite having saved all their lives. There are those who did not earn enough to save enough to live on without struggling financially in retirement. And there are people like the ENRON employees or in my own case a union's mishandling of funds that leaves the employee without all or part of their savings. And we all know how the stock market is going these days.
So, if I were to answer the original question," Financial struggles in retirement - people's own fault or not?" I would say "no." I recognize that some people never tried to save but I think most people who are struggling with finances in retirement are those who tried but weren't successful.
You have to be fortunate AND responsible to have a comfortable retirement.
But there are millions who just refuse to make the sacrifices necessary to save. I have a friend who is a taxi driver and buys a $5 Starbucks every day. She is getting close to retirement age and I asked what her plans are. She has NO retirement savings.
So, $5 per day doesn't sound like much, but saving that every day really adds up. She also buys lots of other non essential stuff.
Those of you who work 40 or more hours a week know how difficult it is to work.
Yes!! Who in their right mind wants to work! We would rather be out dancing and socializing. That is why some of the supposedly disabled people I know would benefit from a little more tough love, and a little less therapy. When I decided to go back to school, in my 40s, what if a therapist told me it would be too hard for someone my age, with my dysfunctional family background? It would have been so much easier not to try.
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We're definitely, each of us, at fault for having anything less than a million bucks plus a substantial pension in retirement. I accept that. I think everyone so far on this thread has agreed to that. It seems no longer necessary to debate, though it has been an interesting one. Thanks, OP! 
Financial struggles in retirement - people's own fault or not?
