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What a fascinating exchange (the last four or five posts)! My opinion is on the side of Robyn55, but that doesn't mean I disbelieve or belittle the opinions of TRosa, Miruca, and StealthRabbit. On the contrary, I admire them greatly for their spirit of service to others; they seem to be unsung Mother Teresas! The real question, I suppose, for the purpose of this discussion (co-housing) is how common these wonderful Mother Teresa types are in our society as a whole, and there is really no way to know that. I have not known very many of them, although I do have a first cousin and her husband who are like that.
In case I didn't make myself clear - I was talking about strangers taking care of strangers (as opposed to family/close friends helping out). My husband and I have "been there/done that" in terms of elder care in our families. And I just can't see giving that kind of help to strangers (or any stranger giving it to me). And there's something in me that resents the idea of family - especially children - dumping their parents on strangers for care instead of taking care of them themselves. Robyn
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider
What a fascinating exchange (the last four or five posts)! My opinion is on the side of Robyn55, ...The real question, I suppose, for the purpose of this discussion (co-housing) is how common these wonderful Mother Teresa types are in our society as a whole, and there is really no way to know that. ....
Actually there are plenty (of caregivers), but obviously fewer in LA and Jacksonville. (tho I have family who has done this for others in LA). A contact recently journeyed from PNW to TN to check out a 'caring aging community' and while it was very well established and functioning properly, he could not overcome his conceived ideas that this type of community is not genuine. It obviously can't work for all, but it is available and possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55
In case I didn't make myself clear - I was talking about strangers taking care of strangers (as opposed to family/close friends helping out). ... children - dumping their parents on strangers for care instead of taking care of them themselves. Robyn
I often find strangers are more capable of providing care than dysfunctional or immature family. This can happen in many circumstances. One totally worn-out friend had to recently give up her unstable adult child to a stranger, and it has worked better than imaged for all. I have had to step into family situations when adult kids were causing more harm than good to their elderly parents, or the kids couldn't handle the death process. Some folks just cannot handle it and I don't belittle them (tho in one case adult kids spent the summer 'cruising in their yacht' while I was working multiple jobs and helping their folks with care / finances / eventually death.) When death came, the kids got the whole enchilada and fought profusely for more than their share (I was not surprised, or incensed... human nature). We're still on speaking terms. The adult kids think I'm nuts, I think they are just a tad spoiled and into themselves, but it's not my business to CHANGE anyone.
Keep an open mind; as mentioned this concept (co-housing / extended 'family' support from strangers) is not for all, but it is viable and has worked for generations around the world, and is very prominent in some cultures. Mostly alien to USA (especially metro), not so alien in Canada.
I often find strangers are more capable of providing care than dysfunctional or immature family. This can happen in many circumstances. One totally worn-out friend had to recently give up her unstable adult child to a stranger, and it has worked better than imaged for all. I have had to step into family situations when adult kids were causing more harm than good to their elderly parents, or the kids couldn't handle the death process. Some folks just cannot handle it and I don't belittle them (tho in one case adult kids spent the summer 'cruising in their yacht' while I was working multiple jobs and helping their folks with care / finances / eventually death.) When death came, the kids got the whole enchilada and fought profusely for more than their share (I was not surprised, or incensed... human nature). We're still on speaking terms. The adult kids think I'm nuts, I think they are just a tad spoiled and into themselves, but it's not my business to CHANGE anyone.
Keep an open mind; as mentioned this concept (co-housing / extended 'family' support from strangers) is not for all, but it is viable and has worked for generations around the world, and is very prominent in some cultures. Mostly alien to USA (especially metro), not so alien in Canada.
Agreed that just being related to someone is no assurance of either dedication to the older person's welfare or of honesty. But it seems to me there would be an automatic suspicion of a stranger being in someone's home if the one needing care is not fully capable of remaining in charge of the situation, either mentally or physically. After all, in that home can be found financial records, checkbooks, social security numbers, etc. I would have been extremely upset if someone had had access to such records of my mother's before her death. My sister and I (the only two children) trust each other 100%, and there are also some first cousins whom we would trust completely to be in the home, etc. There are also other first cousins who have a history of taking advantage of vulnerable people financially; with them the chances would be worse than rolling the dice with a stranger! Perhaps in many cases the responsible parties have removed any and all financial records in the case of the older party being incapable of continuing to handle finances.
I think we are all especially sensitive to situations where we have personal knowledge of abuses. In my case, this knowledge is of the fleecing of a fomer neighbor, an elderly woman, by a con artist; the woman's only child lived out of state and by the time he was alerted by concerned neighbors the damage had been done. At least we know who family members are and (presumably) how to find them. Is my attitude an over-reaction? Of course I don't think so.
Agreed that just being related to someone is no assurance of either dedication to the older person's welfare or of honesty. But it seems to me there would be an automatic suspicion of a stranger being in someone's home if the one needing care is not fully capable of remaining in charge of the situation, either mentally or physically. After all, in that home can be found financial records, checkbooks, social security numbers, etc. I would have been extremely upset if someone had had access to such records of my mother's before her death. My sister and I (the only two children) trust each other 100%, and there are also some first cousins whom we would trust completely to be in the home, etc. There are also other first cousins who have a history of taking advantage of vulnerable people financially; with them the chances would be worse than rolling the dice with a stranger! Perhaps in many cases the responsible parties have removed any and all financial records in the case of the older party being incapable of continuing to handle finances.
I think we are all especially sensitive to situations where we have personal knowledge of abuses. In my case, this knowledge is of the fleecing of a fomer neighbor, an elderly woman, by a con artist; the woman's only child lived out of state and by the time he was alerted by concerned neighbors the damage had been done. At least we know who family members are and (presumably) how to find them. Is my attitude an over-reaction? Of course I don't think so.
Good point - I would not want any of my family members caring for me. They are heavy into the "What's in it for me" mentality. I shudder the thought.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,724 posts, read 58,067,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider
... But it seems to me there would be an automatic suspicion of a stranger being in someone's home if the one needing care is not fully capable of remaining in charge of the situation, either mentally or physically. ... At least we know who family members are and (presumably) how to find them. Is my attitude an over-reaction? Of course I don't think so.
True in the absolute stranger situation, BUT... we are talking co-housing / co-op. These folks are pretty tied together in many ways and there will be a sense of accountability to the group. (Believe me, co-ops / cohousing seniors have exhaustive criteria for accepting new members). These organizations are in big demand with single parents as there is significant 'family' support for one another (which I consider shared childcare far more risky than eldercare). They share meals, management decisions, control and care of property, guest rooms, friends, burdens, and joys.... I see little risk of manipulation and abuse. (but remotely possible).
It will be somewhat like my previous 30 yr employment with 'flexhours' (no time clock / only peer accountability). Most people appreciate the freedom / responsibility and put in far more than std hours/work. Abusers quickly were subject to peer comment / chastisement. Maybe 5 cases @ most in hundreds of co-workers.
Alas, not for everyone, but an extreme delight for many.
True in the absolute stranger situation, BUT... we are talking co-housing / co-op. These folks are pretty tied together in many ways and there will be a sense of accountability to the group. (Believe me, co-ops / cohousing seniors have exhaustive criteria for accepting new members). These organizations are in big demand with single parents as there is significant 'family' support for one another (which I consider shared childcare far more risky than eldercare). They share meals, management decisions, control and care of property, guest rooms, friends, burdens, and joys.... I see little risk of manipulation and abuse. (but remotely possible).
It will be somewhat like my previous 30 yr employment with 'flexhours' (no time clock / only peer accountability). Most people appreciate the freedom / responsibility and put in far more than std hours/work. Abusers quickly were subject to peer comment / chastisement. Maybe 5 cases @ most in hundreds of co-workers.
Alas, not for everyone, but an extreme delight for many.
O.K., I do get the point now, finally. Since the concept of co-housing was basically foreign to me, I needed someone to lay it out for me as you did above. What you said makes sense. Thanks for your patience.
Somehow when I hear some of you talking about this stuff - I don't think you're talking about elderly people who really need a lot of care. Are you talking about people 80+ or younger? What about people with dementia (a lot of people 80+)? Robyn
Don't know old you guys are - but my husband and I are in our mid-60's. Don't need anyone to take care of us. And we're enjoying our respite from elder care before we ourselves get old enough to need it (which probably won't be for quite a while). Robyn
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Family versus strangers and the issue of trust
