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I'm glad this thread got a few responses--it's always good to see different impressions. And a special thanks for the book recommendations. Right now I'm very interested in reading accounts about retirement, especially first hand accounts. Leisureville is ok but I'd rather read a book written by someone who actually lives there.
I read back through the first chapters again, and I still think his comments about Dave and Betsy are mean spirited and, yes, spiteful. I really do get the impression his gripe against them is they should have stayed in New England so they could continue doing favors for their neighbors for free. But, it's good to see that different people get different reactions (after all that's the reason to discuss a book).
The author's biggest gripe seems to be that kids aren't allowed to live in The Villages, which is odd because first he makes snide comments portraying the place as a soul destroying, over-controlled town that nobody would want to live in unless they were brainwashed. But then he gets mad because kids aren't allowed to live in this paradise and they should be allowed to live in a nice place too. But, maybe I'm having trouble understanding his point because I'm distracted by his snide writing style (and also because I don't happen to agree with him. I think there's nothing creepy about wishing to live in child-free communities, especially since kids still visit for weeks at a time.)
Moving on to the sections of the book that are about other retirement towns (which I like much better because the author drops the snippy comments and becomes more objective). This morning I'm on page 137, and here's a quote I find interesting. I would love to hear reactions from you guys. Do you agree with the author?
"Over lunch I meet a woman from Sun City Grand whose husband teaches in a neighboring school district. She says the children are wild, disrespectful, and impossible to discipline.
I ask her if she thinks the area's are segregation has anything to do with it. Surely the children sense Sun City's antipathy toward them."
Sounds to me like the author is trying to blame retirement villages for the fact that kids these days have become increasingly rambunctious. Is he saying that if only grandma lived in an incorporated city rather than a retirement community , then all the kids in America would suddenly become well behaved? And is it grandma's responsibility to teach children how to behave? What about their parents?
And Early Bird was a fun read, about a 25 yo guy who decides to get a jump start on his golden years four decades early and moves to Florida, complete with an elderly roommate:
I hated High School and from what I've read of retirement communities, I'd hate them too. I'm not a "cool kid" and have no wish to hang out with them or be subject to their judgements or gossip. I'm the odd girl out and I'm more comfortable in heterogeneous communities.
I hated High School and from what I've read of retirement communities, I'd hate them too. I'm not a "cool kid" and have no wish to hang out with them or be subject to their judgements or gossip. I'm the odd girl out and I'm more comfortable in heterogeneous communities.
I hear exactly what you say and I've wondered about that too. One thing I read was moving in it hits you that everyone is old. I sort of saw that last weekend when we toured the club house of one and each group of women I saw looked like "little old ladies" with their gray hair (I haven't conceded to that yet). I think part of it is I work in a school with what I call the "sweet young ones". The teachers in their 20's and early 30's and frankly being around them keep me young. At the same time I really like the idea of someone else taking care of all the outside work of a home, a pool and clubhouse type of facilities as well as someone planning activities that I can attend if I wish. Can I find that in a heterogeneous community?
I hear exactly what you say and I've wondered about that too. One thing I read was moving in it hits you that everyone is old. I sort of saw that last weekend when we toured the club house of one and each group of women I saw looked like "little old ladies" with their gray hair (I haven't conceded to that yet). I think part of it is I work in a school with what I call the "sweet young ones". The teachers in their 20's and early 30's and frankly being around them keep me young. At the same time I really like the idea of someone else taking care of all the outside work of a home, a pool and clubhouse type of facilities as well as someone planning activities that I can attend if I wish. Can I find that in a heterogeneous community?
i've also thought that a heterogenous "planned community" might be preferable to an age- segregated one. i don't care so much about planned activities- perhaps a book discussion group, group that meets occasionally for lunch etc.- but would be interested in a community where all maintenance is taken care of and where the community is located within walking distance to some shops, restaurants, grocery stores, and libraries. there are a few condo communities similar to this plan but usually in an urban setting, and as one would expect, not inexpensive.
a friend of mine, age 68, who had been investigating ccrcs and other possibilities, finally decided to purchase a condo in an urban setting, with a concierge, near all the ammenities described above, and with nearby food stores that make home deliveries. she is also near hospitals, cultural venues, and public transportation. i don't know the cost of the condo or condo fees but considering my knowledge of the location, my guess for purchase would be minimum of $500000- $650000.
this kind of arrangement- not this specific location- appeals to me, and i'm interested in seeing how this works for her over time. she is hoping to remain here with the support of the services described for as long as possible, maybe never needing to enter an assisted living facility, if she remains cognitively able to make decisions and able financially to buy services. she is alone and feels that she needs to be in a situation that provides some insulation for her as she ages, without entering a "retirement" facility. i would like to consider a similar arrangement although i don't have the financial resources that she has. i have looked at a few less luxurious settings that offer similar services to residents and it is something i might consider in the next few years.
I hear exactly what you say and I've wondered about that too. One thing I read was moving in it hits you that everyone is old. I sort of saw that last weekend when we toured the club house of one and each group of women I saw looked like "little old ladies" with their gray hair (I haven't conceded to that yet). I think part of it is I work in a school with what I call the "sweet young ones". The teachers in their 20's and early 30's and frankly being around them keep me young. At the same time I really like the idea of someone else taking care of all the outside work of a home, a pool and clubhouse type of facilities as well as someone planning activities that I can attend if I wish. Can I find that in a heterogeneous community?
This is a point I've been thinking about the past couple of days while reading this thread. I work with several 20-somethings, and my sons are also 20-somethings. I thoroughly enjoy my conversations with them about politics, current events and today's society, and they give me a perspective I wouldn't have if I only hung out with the 50 and 60-somethings.
I reread the "Leisureville" book AGAIN and do not see what you see at all. The New England couple who moved to The Villages did NOT ever babysit, like you said. Nowhere is that listed. It looks like Dave cut Andrew's grass once or maybe twice while Dave was out of town one time for a few weeks. I didn't see that the "did" anything else for Andrew, other than give him advice on how to improve the look of his lawn. They were not close friends, merely good neighbors. Andrew mentions that Betsy is at least 2 decades older than the author (Andrew). Therefore, they actually had little in common other than neighborhood issues. NO WHERE did I find that he made snide remarks about the couple. I think he understood that they enjoyed the lifestyle in The Villages and weren't looking for adventure or excitement. Dave invited him down to see the lifestyle and "maybe write a book."
All retirees subsidize the rest of any community, if it is a regular town. Most places expect retirees to pay school tax, although some don't. Many retirees volunteer, and Betsy and Dave did a lot of community work. Of course, all their neighbors and fellow townspeople would be disappointed when they left. Wouldn't you?
Naturally, the young author (I'm figuring around age 33-34) would go to a bar in a place that was filled with much older people. I thought his stories about the people who hung out there were entertaining. Also, stores, bars and restuarants in The Villages are open to anyone, not just Villagers. These people could have been from anywhere. Granted, some weren't the best class of folks, but with 80,000+ people living in The Villages, there are going to be all kinds. Writing about a 60 yr. old normal, everyday couple would be boring.
The author does NOT "mock their furnishings" (Betsy & Dave's) He comments that he is afraid to walk on Betsy's white carpet and avoids doing that, as does her husband. It also sounded like he ate out quite a bit and was not really at their home the entire time, as he stayed a while with Mr. Midnight. Most of the time he seemed to be out and about meeting residents and trying out the various clubs, etc.
I thought much of the book was about 55+ in general and I learned a great deal about the ups & downs of living in one of these communities, as well as the history. I actually found the book very informative in a way that the info sent out by 55+ communities isn't.
I question your take on this book and wonder why you were so upset by it that you wrote this long rant???!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium
LOL I'm reading "Leisureville" right now and wondering what the rest of you think of this book, as well as other such books about retirement communities.
I'm not for or against retirement communities per se although I'll probably choose against them mostly for financial reasons. Also, The Villages is far from an airport. However, I don't think this community deserves the incessant snide remarks made in this book, and in fact it started backfiring--after awhile too many petty (and IMO unfair) smears made me start defending the town and actually becoming interested in it. LOL I don't think it's the reaction the author intended.
It is clear that the author wants his readers to think that retirement communities are creepy. My reaction is it's the author who's creepy. So if you're in the mood for a rant, read on! And let me know if you had the same reaction.
My rant about this book:
The book tells the story of a guy who lives in a small town in New England. He claims he likes the senior citizens "Betsy" and "Dave" who live next door, but the more he talks about them the more it becomes clear that he likes them because they do things for him. Like, when he's out of town Dave mows his lawn. (But the author doesn't talk about how he ever does nice things like this for Dave .) He never has them into his house or goes out with them for fun, but now that they are retired they can do lots more hard work to help out the neighbors (without being paid of course) and "that's as it should be."
The author becomes upset when Betsy and Dave move to FL--but his reason for being upset is so selfish I want to hit him. It's because he wanted them to lead a group fighting city hall for a local park, and if they move away then the author has to take on this chore. Awww, my heart goes out to him. . He admits that the facilities for seniors in his town are depressing and that Betsy and Dave are expected to provide a lot of free work to help out the neighbors but don't get much in return. He also admits that the town will heavily tax Betsy and Dave for schools and kid's programs, and not much of their taxes will be used for services for seniors. Yet he can't fathom why they would want to leave this paradise. This is "as it should be."
So in other words, he's ticked off that they're leaving because they won't be there to service him anymore. Who cares that they worked hard all their life and have earned the right to move to a place where they're happy? Dave is supposed to spend the rest of his life mowing this guys' lawn for free, dammit.
So Betsy and Dave move to the Villages, where they are very happy. It takes them 9 months to sell their house in New England, during which time they visit their old town a few times and repeatedly tell the author how happy they in their new town. Instead of being happy for people he claims are his friends, it makes him resentful, and apparently he decides to write a book and trash this retirement village as his revenge.
After they move, Betsy and Dave make a mistake. They send the author a friendly e-mail, again noting how happy they are, and foolishly invite him to visit. The author takes them up on this offer, and becomes (IMO) the house guest from hell.
He stays for a month, eating their food, using all the amenities, asking for special favors (so he can truly get to know the Village), and repaying them by writing a slam book in which he sneers at his friends in every way he can. He doesn't just insult their town that they obviously love, he mocks their home furnishings and even makes snide little remarks about their clothes and their new friends (who seem much nicer to Betsy and Dave than the author ever was.)
What kind of creepy house guest does that?
He notes that they and their friends are very happy--but puts them down for it. Apparently he thinks they are too stupid to know whether or not they're genuinely happy. The friends regularly invite Betsy and Dave into their home for cocktails and go places with them. The author portrays this as creepy, like it's a scene from The Stepford Wives. He hates how their friends take pride in their lawns; apparently this is creepy because only brainwashed people want to live without little children tearing around through the flowerbeds.
This house guest also does "charming" things like deliberately violating the HOA rules, dropping oil on their spotless street, smearing their friends by name in a book, and rudely telling their friends he thinks that by leaving their hometown they are somehow "harming the fabric of society." (In other words he's ticked off that he doesn't have a free babysitter anymore.) He gets kick out of using foul language (especially the F word) to counter balance the "niceness." Poor Betsy and Dave tolerate this for a month, and as their reward they're publicly mocked in a book. Wow, I've had a lot of house guests over the years, and I can't imagine having a "friend" in my house who would treat me that way.
The book also has some chapters that focus on the history of retirement villages. Those chapters are interesting to read, and at that point the book became worthwhile. But then the author goes back to disparaging poor Betsy and Dave for the sin of being happy in their new town.
I really hope this book ends by Betsy going up to New England and kicking this jerk in a tender spot. Preferably in front of all his friends. With his book.
This is why book reviews are interesting. Different people can have very different takes.
I thought the author became more generous toward the Villages by the end of the book, but overall I continued to have the impression that the author wrote the book with the intention of doing a little bashing, and yes I do think he was resentful of his former neighbors who had moved there. Or maybe he just wrote the book because exposes are trendy and unfortunately overdid it a little. Or maybe I just don't care for that trend in writing. To me it came across as mean spirited rather than objective.
It may just be a reaction to a publishing trend. I'm not big on exposes in general, and in this one I thought the author was needlessly cruel at times. Consider the treatment of the lesbian softball player. She was just minding her own business, but the author was looking for a retired lesbian so he could add a little spice to his book, and this poor woman made the mistake of talking to him when he approached her after a game. She tried to answer his questions discreetly, and was being deliberately vague about whether or not she was a lesbian because her sex life was a private matter for her. Then she had the misfortune of having her girl friend walk up during the conversation, which allowed the author to make the conclusions he wanted to make. She was very clear with the author that she wanted to keep her sex life private, so what does this guy do? He makes a point of disregarding her request and publishes the conversation, including names, so that all their neighbors, who are sure to read this book, now know something the couple wanted to keep private.
"Outing" someone who doesn't want to be outed is not good journalism to me, that's being a jerk. My opinion, of course.
The book did make me want to visit the community though and see the place for myself. It's too far from the ocean for us to live there, but it does sound like an interesting place
I'll get a copy of the book, sounds like fun reading. There is a Del Webb Sun City village not far from home in Sacramento. Ive been there for a few events, it seems OK if you enjoy that sort of place. I have an aversion to HOA's and all the horsepucky that comes along with them. One HOA even foreclosed on a retiree's home in Florida and evicted these poor folks over some unpaid fee!
Thanks for the tip!
I like the background he gave of many of these retirement places but some of the "mid-life crisis" behavior among the residents is really pathetic.
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But, maybe I'm having trouble understanding his point because I'm distracted by his snide writing style (and also because I don't happen to agree with him. I think there's nothing creepy about wishing to live in child-free communities, especially since kids still visit for weeks at a time.) 
And is it grandma's responsibility to teach children how to behave? What about their parents?
Too much like High School
And let me know if you had the same reaction. 
