Too much house! Did you plan appropriately going into retirement? (pension, retiree)

[bpollen]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

Hardly. I am not rich. I am far, far from rich. Perhaps if my net worth were 10x or 20x -- but I am not rich.

If you bought a $50k elevator for your house and describe its cost as "only" $50k, you are wealthy. I imagine you were raised wealthy and don't have poor people in the family or for friends, for you not to know that.

The average middle class family in America has an income of about $52k (about the same as that cost of the elevator). The average poor but working class family has an income of about $25k (half the cost of that elevator). The top 5% has an income of $166k up, and most of them have two wage earners.

There's nothing wrong with being wealthy. But wealthy you are. One tipoff, like others have pointed out, is that you think it's an ordinary and inexpensive thing, to put a $50k elevator in your house (esp. when it's rarely used and not needed yet). That really is something that most people in the country cannot do.

The top 5% of certain cities, though, varies. It takes $350k to in the top 5% in San Francisco, but only $181k for St. Louis, Missouri. Again, these are household figures, as opposed to the income of only one person. Most top 5% income households have two people earning the income.

So maybe that gives you an idea of what "average income" is. Whatever your household's income is, imagine that the elevator cost THAT. Or twice that. That's a pretty stiff price for something that only the cat uses. It's even more out of the question for those with less income, since they have far less expendable income, so losing one year's income on an elevator would be financially devastating to many families. But if you can afford it, that's great. But it's good to be aware of your situation as it relates to the situations of most people.

[foundapeanut]

Elevators aren't that easy to put in correctly. Be very careful. We are good friends with a builder and he tells us about all the badly built homes he goes in and tries to fix. And the huge houses where people want to add an elevator.

No consideration about structure of homes. They buy the elevator first and then call him. House can't support an elevator. And they aren't returnable.

No I don't have one. But when my old house hit the price of a house on our street that had one in it, I knew it was time to sell.
Closed 19 days before the crash hit here. Got lucky is all.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

No, my point of view is not insensitive. Here's what you miss: Half the people will have above average health, and half the people will have below average. This is not fictional Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average. There is only so much that we control. Much of health is genetics and luck, neither of which we can control. What we can control is taking care of ourselves.

What you point out is merely that it is smart to take care of yourself. It is also smart not to play with matches, jump off a bridge, or play on the freeway. Even so, affluent people do indeed engage in risky activities such as skiing and skydiving.

My, aren't we special.

Longevity and geriatric health are strongly correlated with income and wealth. The root cause is most likely a lifetime of constant financial stress that you probably have never experienced. I find your lack of empathy incredibly reprehensible. People don't choose to be poor. A combination of their genetics and environment make them that way.

I've skied 60 to 100 days per year since I was a little kid. Since when is skiing risky beyond tearing ACLs?

[Geeo]

We're going to stay in our 1,600 sf townhouse, it's perfect for us. We bought in 1999 with plans to age in place. We'll be retiring in a few years, so after this it will be either death or a senior complex.

Besides the house, we took into account location. I grew up in the suburbs, so I vowed I would never cut grass or maintain a yard and landscaping again when I grew up. We have access to great hospitals, museums, galleries, restaurants, theater, dance, libraries, and public transit, Uber and Lyft. Groceries, drug stores, shopping are all within walking distance. We save a ton by just having one car and not using it all the time. Home maintenance is cheaper and easy because it's a small place.

[Ellwood]

We moved from a townhouse (2600 sq ft.) to a ranch home (2200 sq ft.)in the country with 3.5 acres. Have lived here 8+ years and have made improvements and keep it as little maintenance as possible. We have riding mowers and although the gardens can be some work, we do little by little and get it done. Daughter and grandchildren come over to help when needed. The house is just right for us. We spend winters in a 40' motorhome so any smaller home wouldn't be for me.

[Gorges]

We went from a 3,000 sq ft 3-level family home on 1/2 acre with a long driveway to shovel to a 4800 sq ft "ranch" with a tiny yard and a driveway barely long enough for a car. We aren't fully retired yet but had to relocate for hubby's job and decided we wanted a place with everything we needed on one floor that could also serve as a retirement home if we decide to stay. We have a master, guest room, office, kitchen and living spaces on the main floor and 2 large guest rooms and living space in the walkout lower level. Our kids are adults but still pretty young, unmarried, and live far away. It was important that we be able to house everyone comfortably at holidays. Our house is large, but very open and that's a negative. I would actually like to put up some walls to create more privacy, and I would like the master to be far far away from the kitchen. Even though the yard is tiny, hubby decided he was done with yard work so we hire someone to maintain it. So we're living the retirement life, though not yet fully retired. The main difference to me is that we went from a 60-year-old house where something always needed fixing and the yard and trees needed maintaining, to something on the newer side with no house or yard maintenance issues.

[reneeh63]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

This thread is about housing - and the question of downsizing in retirement. You seem to want to make it about me. I'm not sure why.

To address your assertions that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I was barely 12 years old when my father died unexpectedly in his mid-40s, leaving behind no assets to speak of and plenty of debt. He never went to college; like so many men of his generation, he lied about his age & joined the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. My mom was not educated, having been raised on a rural ranch with neither electricity nor indoor plumbing, and she was ill-prepared to become a head of household with 3 children: my severely mentally disabled sister, my high-functioning autistic brother, and me. She did the best she could, and I came of age on the wrong side of the railroad tracks, graduating from a high school where a mere 2% of its graduating class went on to college (the worst in the state that year). Many times Friday night dinner came from a local junk food taco stand where you could get something like 6 for a dollar before 6pm. Yes, I know hunger first hand. Mom is still with us, and I support her & my brother every day.



No, I am not. I am affluent - but far from wealthy.

If you are wealthy, you can afford one (or more) of these. I cannot. Not even close.



If you are wealthy, you can afford one of these. I cannot. Not even close.



If you are wealthy, you can afford one of these. I cannot. Not even close.



If you are wealthy, you can afford one of these. I cannot. Not even close.



Unlike the wealthy, I cannot afford a stable:



Unlike the wealthy, I cannot even dream of owning this:



Let alone this:



Or this:



I'll never be able to go lawn bowling here:



The wealthy could own this, but not me:



Out of my league:



I have no chance:



Unlike me, the wealthy could own this:




I couldn't even afford the taxes on this:



I couldn't afford the wages of the staff:



In fact, I couldn't even begin to own this:







An elevator is future-proofing. I do not need to move out of this house once I become infirm. I planned ahead.



I spent my career in Silicon Valley, which of course is unlike most every other place in the country. High income levels coupled with a relatively stagnant housing supply have driven housing prices past ridiculous and into the absurd.

Here's what you get for $1.5 Million:




1426 S Bernardo Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94087 | MLS #ML81626887 | Zillow

You certainly picked some extreme examples attempting to convince us of your limited means. Knowing that you had humble beginnings it is even more surprising that you seem to lack perspective on what some might call a quite nice standard of living for all except the top 0.1%

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

My, aren't we special.

Longevity and geriatric health are strongly correlated with income and wealth.

You seem to be trying to make a point. About half the people have above-average health, and about half the people have below average health. We can't change our genes and we can't change our luck. All we can do is focus on the things we can control.

Originally Posted by GeoffD

... The root cause is most likely a lifetime of constant financial stress that you probably have never experienced. I find your lack of empathy incredibly reprehensible.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Soooo.... you are offended by my observation that half the people are above average and half are below average???

There's a saying you may have heard: life is tough and then you die.

Originally Posted by GeoffD

... People don't choose to be poor. A combination of their genetics and environment make them that way.

You seem to be trying to make a point.... not sure what it is. Few among us choose to be poor, putting aside perhaps Buddhist Monks and Saint Teresa of Calcutta (Mother Teresa) and others similarly situated.

Originally Posted by GeoffD

... I've skied 60 to 100 days per year ...

WOW! It must be nice to be rich!!!

Originally Posted by GeoffD

... since I was a little kid.

WOW! You grew up rich too!

Originally Posted by GeoffD

... Since when is skiing risky beyond tearing ACLs?

You've pointed to the correct body part. While skiing, you're about 300 times more likely to have a serious knee injury compared to not being on the slopes. ACL, MCL, torn meniscus, etc. Overall skiing is not as dangerous a sport as some might think, but it is the knees that are most likely to be injured. ACL tears don't always happen from being in the back seat and trying to recover; I know a ski instructor who, while stationary talking to her class, literally fell over and tore her ACL.

One of the reasons knees are the most likely body part to be injured is as part of a conscious tradeoff by the designers of the modern DIN system and modern ski boot bindings. Bindings could be designed to release in more ways (KneeBindings) and could be designed to relieve knee stresses more reliably, thereby reducing the probability of a knee injury. Unfortunately, by doing so, the designers would increase the risk that your binding would release at the wrong time and as a result you lose control and hit a tree (for example).

Spend a few minutes on http://scholar.google.com searching for ski injuries & knee injuries and related terms.

I ski about 60 to 80 days per year, but only in the past decade. I volunteer on the slopes, giving mountain tours and directions by a map and the like. My conversations with ski patrol indicate an increase in the number of skier-to-skier (or snowboarder) injuries. Someone zigs and someone else zags at the wrong time, with a collision at speed. And, of course, there are the one-week-per-year skiers who, late in the afternoon on the last day of their vacation, see if they can break 50 MPH as measured by a ski app on their phone.

[oldtrader]

We are not wealthy, but live in a 3,700 sq. ft. 4 level custom home. Back in the Silicon Valley where we raised our family our 5 acre estate would cost from $3.5 million to $5 million depending on where it was located. Here it is 10% of that value. As we are both in our latter 80s, we have stair lifts between the 4 floors (3 chair lifts total). We would have put in an elevator instead of chair lifts, but the home does not have ability to have an elevator to reach all 4 floors.

Today an elevator is starting to become common for middle class, not just the rich.

A Rising Trend: Home Elevators | Realtor Magazine

[cmarlin20]

I know nothing about the elevator woman's wealth (or the lack), but do know an elevator is a good and less expensive option than moving from one's loved home.

What is wealthy? Just looked online, UBS investors said it is having $5mil with $1mil in cash. I hear the term "wealthy" and "rich" being tossed around, sometimes in a pejorative manner (as if its bad) and wonder how each person defines it.