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Do you realize that you quoted me saying "some" and then changed it to "most" in your assessment of the conclusion? I never said they refuse; many feel they never had a choice and some are right; there really wasn't extra. But the point is that we cannot pretend that we can make everyone understand and contribute toward their retirement if they can and we can't pretend that everyone can. Actually, that's not true; you can pretend whatever you want. But a retirement strategy should not be based on that fiction.
Have not read the whole thread.
I came here from the UK where I spent the early part of my working life. I remember that we had to either “contract-out” of the state OAP scheme, or we contributed to it at a higher rate.
I was one who “contracted-out” because my company had a good pension scheme and although my wages were meager back then, I joined the pension scheme. Thus I was able to cut my contribution to the state OAP plan to 3% of my gross salary. The folks who didn’t join some kind of retirement scheme while working, had to contribute to the state OAP plan at 9% of their gross.
It is ironic that socialist Britain (and it was socialist back then and had been for years) had a good solution that took into account that some people would save while others would need to be forced to save.
The problem is that our expectations need to return to that of our Grandparents, who were the last of the generations who were required to self-fund their retirements, and who continued working until that need was satisfied. No more hiring into a major employer at 18 years of age with no specialized skills, spend every dime you make and save nothing, work for thirty years, then retire at age 48 and receive a guaranteed pension for the next 40+ years till death.
Bit of a stretch there, don't ya think? No specialized skills? Your description sounds like the blue-collar union jobs which, if I'm not mistaken were (are) INDEED specialized. Many of our so-called "diversified" investments tanked - mine did at the end of the Clinton era.
My late Father (high school education) was mid-management for a small, private vending/events company for 30 years. He was told to absolutely leave his job to be with his family at 60 (late-stage Lymphoma with bone and soft tissue metastatis). His employer would not budge on the pension: nothing - zip. And Dad was a very moderate spender.
Ironically (and joyfully) an oncologist at Penn took a risk and saved his life. He passed (or as we say: "went home") at the age of 86 due to Alzheimer's, but was given another TWENTY-FIVE excellent-to-good years and found a driving job part-time. Had he not been wise in the stock market, however, he would have died penniless. I don't believe his is an unusual story.
it is no different than losing weight . very few have actual conditions that leave them over weight . for most it is they need to eat less and move more .
but there are always going to be loads of people who will find excuses as to why it is not their case .
this is just how life works and there are those who will never see or seize an opportunity because they don't see it or really care to see it if it is not handed to them . kind of like those who complain they can't meet anyone but they never go out to places where you can meet or try on line .. .
I do like your analogy - eating (spending) less and moving (actively/mindfully working and saving) more.
Are you sure you have read my posts? I am a 5%er; I have reasonably well funded retirement accounts and will collect the max on SS. It's other people who are not in good shape that I worry about causing the current system to crumble.
What system is crumbling? People are still getting the SS that is due them. People needing more to live on is a different issue. Outside of SS, who bears the responsibility to cover everyone's personal budget deficits?
You mean when we had poorhouses and poverty was considered a moral failing?
We still have poverty. I guess poorhouses were in lieu of handing out welfare checks. Shouldn't be comfortable.
There's the old tradition of taking care of the elders in the family (think The Waltons). Many cultures do that. Heaven forbid we think of others before ourselves.
I do think we tend to live loose and spend hard - for tomorrow we may die - but we never do. We just get old and expect the government to supply funding for our retirement.
Interesting that you bolded only the comments about those who have means and failed to take advantage of them. A significant portion of the population does not have the means. So what do you propose doing about people who don't have enough to retire?
Everyone has the means. But the means are being drained by the State. ALL social security withholding from the time one is a teenager until the time of retirement should: 1)NOT be going to the state and 2)BE DEPOSITED in a stock index fund or similar investment vehicle for the sole benefit of the contributor. Even a working slob who never gets past Walmart would accumulate sufficient wealth for a nice retirement.
So all we have to do is change the destination of the withholding and assign a trustee to prevent access until retirement age, at which point the amassed wealth is converted to an annuity.
That alone would nearly solve the problem. It would create what is basically a 15% saving program. 15% of all your earnings would invested for your own benefit and powered by the American economy and the time value of money.
As it stands, Social Security withholdings are dumped into the United States general fund and are wasted.
So, that is the basic solution. Abolish Social Security and add the Social Security Individual Investment Program. Your entire withholding gets invested for your own benefit. Same as now, you can't touch it. It accumulates and is invested. You end up with a fortune, even if you are a fairly useless robot who never gets past Walmart or McDonalds.
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