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Yeah, see, this is kind of what I meant. As you suggest, those first two links really aren't the same sort of thing as Garden City. I'm not familiar enough with this type of development to tell you what they're called, but from a local perspective, they appear to be more of destination experiences like Patriot Place or Legacy Place, both south of Boston. You know, the kind of place that has a big, silly restaurant with a bowling alley and may or may not be connected to an NFL stadium. Bricktown in Oklahoma City, the Grove in Los Angeles or any of the Live! centers sprinkled throughout the country also come to mind.
Garden City's suburban mallternative raison d'etre is more in line with the last link, Nyberg Woods. Now, I haven't even been to Oregon and there are only four photos there, but from what I can see, Garden City looks more appealing. Buildings more on a human scale, sidewalks more open, parking less obtrusive, surroundings generally more attractive, that sort of thing.
I'd heard the Garden City Center development in Cranston was meant to be in the new style of open air malls, a bit like a pedestrian shopping streets like you see in Europe. In practice, it's just two strip malls lining a central parking lot, with an empty and ignored central gazebo out in the middle of the asphalt.
FYI, in case you didn't know, the gazebo is the site of very highly attended concerts every Wednesday evening. Sales and Events at Garden City Center, Cranston, RI I admit, I usually forget about them myself, until I go into GC for something and encounter the crowds.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neguy99
The lower cost stuff I definitely agree with. Historic preservation absolutely, that's a huge plus for PVD. Ditto small scale things like bike racks. A lot of business climate stuff too, like not having such an ambivalent attitude about food trucks (I'd wondered why they seemed scarce around Brown now, turns out a few months ago the city cops got extremely aggressive about parking and other regulations, like threatening to impound the Mama Kin truck because their peddlers' license wasn't displayed in the right spot on the van -- not even letting them finish cooking meals already ordered, if I understood the report correctly).
So we have some common ground. That's a good start. I wonder if there are others who think this way.
I can't imagine why the police would behave in such a draconian way toward the food trucks. There must be a reason, even if it is not a good reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neguy99
Anyway, another example. I'd heard the Garden City Center development in Cranston was meant to be in the new style of open air malls, a bit like a pedestrian shopping streets like you see in Europe. In practice, it's just two strip malls lining a central parking lot, with an empty and ignored central gazebo out in the middle of the asphalt. It would have not have taken much additional cost to make it far more inviting for strolling and hanging out, like wider sidewalks in front of the stores, some landscaping and separated pedestrian paths through the lot (and connected to the lonely gazebo). Pedestrian connections from the mall area to the other nearby shopping and to the big condo Chapel Hill development across the street were also very uninviting despite the opportunity being so obvious. Even Kansas City, Kansas has managed to build that sort of an 'urbanist non-mall' quite well, so it was disappointing to see the local developers and the Cranston planning board missed on the small touches that make the difference.
Ultimately Garden City is just an outdoor mall in suburbia, with the car the dominant mode of transportation to/from the place. It's ok, though as you say it could have been much better. I've been there to go to one store or another, but I don't get excited to go there.
...A lot of business climate stuff too, like not having such an ambivalent attitude about food trucks (I'd wondered why they seemed scarce around Brown now, turns out a few months ago the city cops got extremely aggressive about parking and other regulations, like threatening to impound the Mama Kin truck because their peddlers' license wasn't displayed in the right spot on the van -- not even letting them finish cooking meals already ordered, if I understood the report correctly).
Be an interesting story to read details. Could it be that the truck was obstructing traffic, whether vehicular or pedestrian? I've long heard rumors that the "silent owner" of Mama Kin is Kim Jong-un and her alliances lie with the North.
Complaints from existing merchants seems the big thing, and in character for PVD. Unless there is some skullduggery that the Herald isn't privvy too, which is also possible. My wife is on the fringes of state/city politics these days, and it's amazing how many things are not what they seem on the surface -- even being driven by intra-family spats in some cases given what a nepotistic business it is here.
A broader point here is that for all the "liberal" reputation held by Portland, Austin, Seattle, etc., one key part of those cities' dynamism is that they embrace a fair amount of creative destruction. If a new guy wants to open a better pizza joint, or even a new fangled way of serving pizza that is more efficient than a traditional place (e.g., truck), great. City Hall is willing to let Vinny and Vito down the block go out of business, and see their employees lose jobs, if those firms can't keep up. More so than Providence politicians are willing to. Now if the new guy is a disfavored national chain like Walmart or Chick-Fil-A, that's different. And City Hall in those towns impose regs that many businesses dislike, such as high minimum wages or architectural restrictions. But they are less sentimental when new people with disruptive ideas come in and disrupt old businesses.
Thanks for the link. Apart from the two month old Skewers, the totality of food on Thayer is dreary and predictably the same. Food trucks offer so much better, even the hot dog truck at Burnside Park. This police activity is nonsense and I think neguy makes a really important point about creative destruction.
I want to give a plug to Skewers. The kabobs are tender, but what really sets it apart are the wonderful, fresh and tasty grilled vegetables -- first rate. And they mix lentils with their rice. Healthy food that's fast and utterly delicious.
I have wondered why Rhode Island seems to be an economically state with little industry and cash strapped cities. As the guy said it is located between New York and Boston on near perfect seacoast. Providence and the surrounding cities have acres of old industrial property begging for alternative uses and centers small enough to be pedestrian friendly. The latter is not surprising as the cities were originally built when the alternative to walking was a very expensive horse.
I think that one of the problems is RI has been a playground for the exceedingly wealthy and still is. They have the seashore and the rest of the population has the potholes. I expect New Hampshire, where I live, to have poor roads because of the sheer cheapness of our Legislature but why RI with its warmer climate and less snow?
RI has the opportunity to attract the younger population of workers and businessmen that are being priced pout of NY and Boston. Hopefully the entrenched powers that be will get off their protective arses and take the risk of change. If they do not them RI will continue its slow slide to another failing city on I-95.
To put it in context, a lot of cities like RI are in bad shape: Industrial-era manufacturing centers that are second-tier cities relative to other major population centers in their region. Here in the Northeast, we fit right in with towns from Worcester to Rochester. Especially true for places that were heavily dependent on defense contractors and/or military bases. Cities that fit PVD's profile that are doing well are the exception, not the rule. The pattern all over is increasing concentration in a few tech-finance hubs. That and towns with newer infrastructure and better weather to the South and West finding it easier (though still not necessarily great).
That said, with PVD's great location, history, and educational institutions, it has a lot more to work with than most. We *should* be doing better.
Why are RI roads so bad? I suspect others could go on more than me, but inefficiency and outright corruption are certainly big parts of it, and have been for a long time. I know in the I-95 viaduct they are rebuilding through downtown, testing showed the original 1950s concrete had only half the strength that was specified in the plans and supposedly delivered by the contractor.
Location: Earth, a nice neighborhood in the Milky Way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW
I have wondered why Rhode Island seems to be an economically state with little industry and cash strapped cities. As the guy said it is located between New York and Boston on near perfect seacoast. Providence and the surrounding cities have acres of old industrial property begging for alternative uses and centers small enough to be pedestrian friendly. The latter is not surprising as the cities were originally built when the alternative to walking was a very expensive horse.
I think that one of the problems is RI has been a playground for the exceedingly wealthy and still is. They have the seashore and the rest of the population has the potholes. I expect New Hampshire, where I live, to have poor roads because of the sheer cheapness of our Legislature but why RI with its warmer climate and less snow?
RI has the opportunity to attract the younger population of workers and businessmen that are being priced pout of NY and Boston. Hopefully the entrenched powers that be will get off their protective arses and take the risk of change. If they do not them RI will continue its slow slide to another failing city on I-95.
Shame on the engineers who failed to test the compressive strength of the concrete as poured. That's as basic as it gets.
I think, in addition to the questionable accountability of contractors who have performed jobs for the state, the issue is also that we tend to hover about the freezing point in the winter. Every rise and fall above the freezing mark is a cycle in the freeze-thaw process which drives pothole creation. The more cycles, the more damage done.
And yes, there are quite a number of people who have already found their way here from either New York or Boston, some of whom are on this forum. As you note, we need to do more to encourage that.
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