The "not quite so good" things about Roanoke :)

[ExAustin]

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

Study the history. Slavery was wrong and the Northern states had them as well. But why does everyone think is was "all" just about Slavery.

Virginia would always vote against Secession, till Lincoln called out for 75,000 Troops to Invade. Which meant Virginia would now be required to contribute 1000's of soldiers to help invade the South. Now Virginia said "We don't want to invade our neighbors to the South, we've got nothing against them". It also was apparent that if Virginia seceded, Lincoln would also threaten to invade them. Another factor that Virginia also did not like (Coercion). Therefore Virginia now voted to Secede. Then sure enough, Lincoln Invaded. Virginians marched to defend their territory. Many died in battle defending it. There are many descendants today as well as groups and organizations and as well as monuments (protected by Virginia State Law to boot) honoring those who died defending their homeland.

Now slave owners were in the minority back then and another thing to remember which is true to the core.

"No man fought just so another man could keep slaves".

Like I said, Study the History, the Real History and not the biased one that many were taught.

Yes, history is more complicated than what we were taught. A bit more than half of Confederate states claimed slavery (particularly the economics of it) was their primary motivation. But generally the war wasn't fought over slavery per se, but rather who had the right to decide whether slavery (and particularly tariffs and taxes) was acceptable or not.

Regardless, it was a poor decision to side with friendly neighbors (who use people and children as farm equipment) versus holding the Union together, cost what it may, even if it wasn't always fair.

So why take up this cause in 2019? Back in the mid-19th century most people barely had elementary school education, medicine was practically witch doctor type stuff, and living past age 50 was considered lucky. Nowadays, it's more about east vs. west than north vs. south. China, North Korea, and Russia are of much greater concern than what your educated downtown counterpart wearing skinny jeans and sockless boat shoes is re-roofing his garage with.

I dunno. Colossal waste of time, with no endgame. *shrug*

[ExAustin]

Another complaint: The dad gum street lights on Campbell starting around 5th avenue heading west are timed poorly.

[16 Acres]

Originally Posted by ExAustin

So why take up this cause in 2019?

Two things:

-To keep the honor of those who fought and died serving their homeland. Although slavery was wrong, Lincoln's decision to invade Virginia was also wrong. Remember, some Northern states still had slavery at the same exact time.

-Secondly is fighting back. Although the Flags were always around, I've seen an increase since society is trying to take them away. Trying to take Heritage away from people is not something taken very lightly.

It also represents Southern Pride and Southern Culture. Although sadly, many don't take it that way, they all tend to jump on the negative side.

Interestingly many African Americans also fought for the Confederacy. Another thing history books don't like to teach.

For some additional interesting info, research H. K. Edgerton online. You may be surprised.

[ExAustin]

I get it... the "need to belong" is a primary human drive. But must the fightin' go on forever? Wasn't all this land stolen from the natives in the first place? Traditions get old and sometimes they just need to go.

Hanging on to Confederate Pride is a lot like the way the Dutch think about Zwarte Piet. The Dutch are awfully incensed over being told their holiday is racist. Even if it isn't meant that way, even if it isn't all about Zwarte Piet, fundamentally, it's just not where the world is heading any more. And frankly, just from the sight of it, it's offensive. I mean, come on.

Progressive Dutch folks are thus modernizing the character by decorating themselves with "soot stripes" from the chimney instead of going full blackface. Is that so horribly heritage-destroying?

The problem with the whole Lost Cause thing is that it acts like a big orange parking brake on progress and growth. No one ever moves on. "We fought back!", they say. Actually, no. "We" didn't. Our grandpa's grandpa's did... and they are long gone. So why identify with this antiquated turf battle in a world of nanobots, telepresence, and instant shopping?

[Rickcin]

Originally Posted by ExAustin

Another complaint: The dad gum street lights on Campbell starting around 5th avenue heading west are timed poorly.

Timed? They should be electronically coordinated and monitored in real time to avoid traffic congestion and backup. Most times, a bicycle rider could easily make better time on Orange Ave depending on the traffic light sequence.

[16 Acres]

Originally Posted by ExAustin

I get it... the "need to belong" is a primary human drive. But must the fightin' go on forever? Wasn't all this land stolen from the natives in the first place? Traditions get old and sometimes they just need to go.

Hanging on to Confederate Pride is a lot like the way the Dutch think about Zwarte Piet. The Dutch are awfully incensed over being told their holiday is racist. Even if it isn't meant that way, even if it isn't all about Zwarte Piet, fundamentally, it's just not where the world is heading any more. And frankly, just from the sight of it, it's offensive. I mean, come on.

Progressive Dutch folks are thus modernizing the character by decorating themselves with "soot stripes" from the chimney instead of going full blackface. Is that so horribly heritage-destroying?

The problem with the whole Lost Cause thing is that it acts like a big orange parking brake on progress and growth. No one ever moves on. "We fought back!", they say. Actually, no. "We" didn't. Our grandpa's grandpa's did... and they are long gone. So why identify with this antiquated turf battle in a world of nanobots, telepresence, and instant shopping?

I don't know anything about the Dutch, but do we still honor our soldiers when we defeated the British? How about in WWI? WWII? etc?

When your territory gets invaded by an "enemy" soldiers step up, fight and many die defending it. If you were here back then, what would you have done? I would have been Strongly against Slavery back then and I would want it to stop, but not that way.

Very similar to Abortion today. I am Strongly against it and I want it to stop. But if a foreign country told us "You better stop it or we will attack you" and they started invading us, would I fight to stop them? Sure would. Like I said, I want it to stop, but not that way.

Don't forget the hardships of the war. The Union not only killed and wounded soldiers, but the destruction was horrifying. And I'm also talking about Virginia's citizens as well. I asked you a minute ago about what would you have done. How would you have liked to woken up one morning and found your barn burnt, crops ruined and horses stolen. Read up on Sheridan's Campaign and Hunter's Raid. Right here in this area to boot. Brave men did the best they could to defend it and deserve honor in doing so.

By the way, there is no "fightin" as you have stated. Where's the fight? People display their Confederate Flags to honor their forefathers and their Heritage. If someone doesn't like it, just don't look at it.

[ExAustin]

Yes, the difference being the Revolutionary War, WWI, WWII struggles preserved the American way of life and liberty for all. Whereas the Civil War was a crisis in which our country was tearing itself apart from within.

Today, the Germans do not honor the Nazis. Germany was hijacked by an unstable populist maniac and they pretty much admit... oops... big mistake. Won't go there again. Time to move on. Why don't we too?

Flying a Confederate flag today, even if just to honor grandpa-uncle-so-and-so's decision to fight on the wrong side of history, always brings up the slavery aspect like it or not. It's just part of the package. Too much baggage.

Does honoring our ancestors require the act of hoisting a divisive symbol in place of our national identity? Is it worth intentionally upsetting others to do this? Or is that the point? It's MY history, not YOURS, and I don't care if it offends you.

(in truth, the vast majority of Americans do find it offensive or at least needlessly divisive nowadays... not just "the left/socialists/commies/conspiracy theory of the month")

Look, I'm a southerner and some of my family fought for the Confederacy (and some against it). But the last thing I'd do to honor them is hoist a battle flag right in my front yard. Pretty sure my neighbors wouldn't appreciate that and my family might ask if I was feeling all right.

But hey, that's the great irony... it is the American flag, not the Confederate one, which allows people to fly the Confederate flag if they want to. If they really really feel like they absolutely positively must.

[AdamJF]

The amount of people running on the side of the road, right next to a side walk is absolutely mind blowing to me. tripping < hit by a car

Also the amount of bikes on roads that are extremely twisty or have a speed limit above 25mph. If you have a cool 1k bike and want people to see it, take it to the greenway!!

[TN Lily]

The folks running on the road when there is a sidewalk is because of the poor condition of the sidewalks. In my neighborhood, most of the sidewalks are not "runnable" IMO. I have to be careful to simply walk on them.

Re the bikes, I agree, especially in some of the more rural areas. Bikers on many of these country roads are putting their lives at risk. It is very annoying to have to follow them for an extended distance because you cannot safely go around them. BUT riding on the greenway on a pretty day means you confront pedestrians who often walk abreast and take up the entire width of the greenway and are then offended that someone coming the other way might want to have a portion of that space or that someone who is faster coming from behind them, night want to go around them while staying on the greenway.