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So, the wife has been nagging to move to the Rochester area for years now. I see the writing on the wall, and I'm gonna lose the argument, lol. We wouldn't move in the immediate future, but sometime maybe in the next two years or so. Time to gather some info.
She wants to be near her family, and I have visited there a few times. Both of her sisters live there, one in Greece, the other in Rochester proper, so I have some impressions for you to critique, and a couple of questions.
It's well that I have been to the area multiple times hand have spent a total of about a month there between all of my visits, in different seasons. I won't go into the story, but ever since I was a kid in California, I haven't held the Northeast in high regard, and having lived in Texas for over 10 years now, I don't hear many kind words for "Yankees", "northies", etc.
One of the things I really, genuinely like about Rochester, and indeed about places like Western/Central New York or places like New Hampshire and Maine is that this isn't anything like the northeast at which I have always looked askance. The BosWash corridor along I95 is the area which frankly kinda sucks, but Rochester has a contentedly slower pace of life. There's basically no traffic, and no feeling like you have to rush around anywhere. I like that a 15 minute drive can take you out to farm land or a nearly ocean-sized lake. It's a nice size, large enough to attract good concerts and events, small enough that you never feel jammed in. I am at heart someone who is in love with the desert southwest, but I admit that the lush greenness of the area is nice. Shopping is basically convenient to any area, there's good parks, and summers are quite lovely. Rochester proper seems to be consistently trashed no matter where I read, but having spent some time there, too, I would say it feels a bit sketchy but not so unsafe that I have trouble thinking about my wife and kids staying there. If anything, a pocketknife and some situational awareness are all I feel I need. It also seems like there are lots of festivals and family events. Watkins Glen race track isn't that far, and neither is Canada, or Letchworth State Park. I also love the diversity of ethnic foods. Sadly, I love Mexican food, and there doesn't seem to be much of that, but otherwise I see lots of stuff I've never had before. I was, for instance, mightily impressed by a pretty nonchalant Jamaican food place. Heck yeah! Basically, I am a child of the suburbs, and the ones here (specifically Greece, as that's where I have spent the bulk of my time) seem like fairly idyllic ones.
Downsides - winter. Growing up in California, we went skiing often, and it was nice to visit the snow but return to a nice 60* winter day in the Bay Area. I also have Raynaud syndrome which makes winter quite literally physically painful. Like most of the snow belt, salt is used in winter and it is shocking how trashed cars get. As a car guy myself, it makes me gulp a little bit. Taxes, well, suck pretty bad, as I came of age in Texas, and that intimidated me more than a little. The housing stock looks like it is aging. What's with the basement fetish? The basement at the house I stay at in Greece is finished and nice, the one in Rochester proper looks like something from a serial killer documentary. Maybe it's lack of familiarity, but basements seem like a dank, leaky pain and I don't see why you'd actually want one. While we're on the subject of housing, the back yards seem embarrassingly public, I don't see many fences. I feel spied upon. And what's up with the siding? It's not a good look, IMHO. Neighbors seem friendly, but otherwise folks seem either a bit reserved, indifferent, or aloof. I don't tend to receive good service at businesses or restaurants. While we are talking about restaurants...they seemed expensive to me, and when I took the fam out to Olive Garden, I confirmed it. My fav dish there is exactly $2 more than where I am in Texas. Politics seem a bit lefty, but as I am myself a libertarian, I can't really think of any place where I really feel welcome.
Questions:
Jobs? I'm a truck driver and blue collar is my thing. I have a degree from UT, but office work isn't my thing. I gather the job market is mostly lower- to middle-paying jobs?
Education? We have two daughters, 7 and 5. Our eldest is in a gifted and talented program here, but we have discussed homeschool before, as neither of us really find public schooling to be attractive. I know this varies widely by state, and in Texas, it's thankfully lax - basically, if you present a lesson plan, they will release the child's education to you. What is the situation in NY? If it's untenable, I've done some reading on Rochester metro schools but don't have it all straight in my head. Are they largely decent?
Housing? I alluded to how I find most homes to be rather unsatisfactory, but of course we would rent to start off with. What are decent areas to rent in? I definitely don't have a generous budget.
City status? All over the northeast, I see things like village, town, township, etc. I'm not familiar with this. Do these make any real difference?
Lastly, just sell me on the area. Yes, I'm gathering information, but I'd also like to put my mind at ease.
So, the wife has been nagging to move to the Rochester area for years now. I see the writing on the wall, and I'm gonna lose the argument, lol. We wouldn't move in the immediate future, but sometime maybe in the next two years or so. Time to gather some info.
She wants to be near her family, and I have visited there a few times. Both of her sisters live there, one in Greece, the other in Rochester proper, so I have some impressions for you to critique, and a couple of questions.
It's well that I have been to the area multiple times hand have spent a total of about a month there between all of my visits, in different seasons. I won't go into the story, but ever since I was a kid in California, I haven't held the Northeast in high regard, and having lived in Texas for over 10 years now, I don't hear many kind words for "Yankees", "northies", etc.
One of the things I really, genuinely like about Rochester, and indeed about places like Western/Central New York or places like New Hampshire and Maine is that this isn't anything like the northeast at which I have always looked askance. The BosWash corridor along I95 is the area which frankly kinda sucks, but Rochester has a contentedly slower pace of life. There's basically no traffic, and no feeling like you have to rush around anywhere. I like that a 15 minute drive can take you out to farm land or a nearly ocean-sized lake. It's a nice size, large enough to attract good concerts and events, small enough that you never feel jammed in. I am at heart someone who is in love with the desert southwest, but I admit that the lush greenness of the area is nice. Shopping is basically convenient to any area, there's good parks, and summers are quite lovely. Rochester proper seems to be consistently trashed no matter where I read, but having spent some time there, too, I would say it feels a bit sketchy but not so unsafe that I have trouble thinking about my wife and kids staying there. If anything, a pocketknife and some situational awareness are all I feel I need. It also seems like there are lots of festivals and family events. Watkins Glen race track isn't that far, and neither is Canada, or Letchworth State Park. I also love the diversity of ethnic foods. Sadly, I love Mexican food, and there doesn't seem to be much of that, but otherwise I see lots of stuff I've never had before. I was, for instance, mightily impressed by a pretty nonchalant Jamaican food place. Heck yeah! Basically, I am a child of the suburbs, and the ones here (specifically Greece, as that's where I have spent the bulk of my time) seem like fairly idyllic ones.
Downsides - winter. Growing up in California, we went skiing often, and it was nice to visit the snow but return to a nice 60* winter day in the Bay Area. I also have Raynaud syndrome which makes winter quite literally physically painful. Like most of the snow belt, salt is used in winter and it is shocking how trashed cars get. As a car guy myself, it makes me gulp a little bit. Taxes, well, suck pretty bad, as I came of age in Texas, and that intimidated me more than a little. The housing stock looks like it is aging. What's with the basement fetish? The basement at the house I stay at in Greece is finished and nice, the one in Rochester proper looks like something from a serial killer documentary. Maybe it's lack of familiarity, but basements seem like a dank, leaky pain and I don't see why you'd actually want one. While we're on the subject of housing, the back yards seem embarrassingly public, I don't see many fences. I feel spied upon. And what's up with the siding? It's not a good look, IMHO. Neighbors seem friendly, but otherwise folks seem either a bit reserved, indifferent, or aloof. I don't tend to receive good service at businesses or restaurants. While we are talking about restaurants...they seemed expensive to me, and when I took the fam out to Olive Garden, I confirmed it. My fav dish there is exactly $2 more than where I am in Texas. Politics seem a bit lefty, but as I am myself a libertarian, I can't really think of any place where I really feel welcome.
Questions:
Jobs? I'm a truck driver and blue collar is my thing. I have a degree from UT, but office work isn't my thing. I gather the job market is mostly lower- to middle-paying jobs?
Education? We have two daughters, 7 and 5. Our eldest is in a gifted and talented program here, but we have discussed homeschool before, as neither of us really find public schooling to be attractive. I know this varies widely by state, and in Texas, it's thankfully lax - basically, if you present a lesson plan, they will release the child's education to you. What is the situation in NY? If it's untenable, I've done some reading on Rochester metro schools but don't have it all straight in my head. Are they largely decent?
Housing? I alluded to how I find most homes to be rather unsatisfactory, but of course we would rent to start off with. What are decent areas to rent in? I definitely don't have a generous budget.
City status? All over the northeast, I see things like village, town, township, etc. I'm not familiar with this. Do these make any real difference?
Lastly, just sell me on the area. Yes, I'm gathering information, but I'd also like to put my mind at ease.
You seem to have a pretty good handle on the area and many of its ups and downs. The area can be great or terrible, depending on your situation and your needs.
If I were you, I would focus on the educational component first. NYS likes to put its hands all over everything. Definitely check out whether home schooling is a realistic option for you. I'm sure others can provide info on that.
If home schooling is not a viable option, the area has a number of high quality school districts. However, Rochester city schools are among the worst you will find. Suburbs with good schools tend to be expensive and if you plan to buy the taxes are also high.
You seem to have a pretty good handle on the area and many of its ups and downs. The area can be great or terrible, depending on your situation and your needs.
If I were you, I would focus on the educational component first. NYS likes to put its hands all over everything. Definitely check out whether home schooling is a realistic option for you. I'm sure others can provide info on that.
If home schooling is not a viable option, the area has a number of high quality school districts. However, Rochester city schools are among the worst you will find. Suburbs with good schools tend to be expensive and if you plan to buy the taxes are also high.
Good luck with your decision.
Ok. If that's a high priority to focus on, I'll shift some effort that direction.
What are you looking for in a community/neighborhood? That would help determine where to look within the area.
Just your fairly decent suburban setting. Money will be tight for a while when we move, I imagine, so I think we can eliminate the fancier neighborhoods for now. Greece is a nice example of what we would seek, but that's essentially all I know of the communities in the area. Gates looked like it was a smidgeon cheaper? I also know nothing about the east side (Irondequoit, etc.)
Irondequoit is a great place to live. It's very affordable and trending younger because of the affordable housing stock. It's fairly urban feeling whereas Greece is going to feel more like a suburb. So depending on what you are looking for.
As for the schools, Rochester is known for its fantastic suburban schools. if you were basing your thoughts on home schooling based on experiences with public schools in different states, I can ensure you that the Rochester metro is quite different. For instance in Irondequoit, the amount of technology and innovation is impressive. In the school district all kids get an Ipad to use throughout the school year. The school is known as a PYP "Inquiry" school. Which means that they tailor a lot of the education to hands on activities where the students do activities to stimulate thought.
Also the Rochester area is a great place to raise a family. You have so many family activities for all seasons right on your doorstep. Museums, amusement parks, zoo, farms, etc.
Red Wings baseball games (AAA team for Minnesota Twins and always has great family activities at their games)
Also the oldest continuously operating minor league professional team in all of sports https://www.facebook.com/RocRedWings/?ref=nf
Rochester Museum and Science Center (The planetarium is incredibly fun and is expanding and replacing all equipment to new cutting edge technology) Home - Rochester Museum & Science Center
Just your fairly decent suburban setting. Money will be tight for a while when we move, I imagine, so I think we can eliminate the fancier neighborhoods for now. Greece is a nice example of what we would seek, but that's essentially all I know of the communities in the area. Gates looked like it was a smidgeon cheaper? I also know nothing about the east side (Irondequoit, etc.)
Western suburbs tend to be more working to even upper middle class.
I'd say on the East Side, East Rochester and parts of Webster would be worth a look.
Wow, JCP123. You have made some well-thought-out observations, and seem to have a good idea of what you are looking for. All that time driving the interstates give a man time to think.
It's funny to hear someone who's not from here be puzzled by some of the stuff I always thought was perfectly normal.
Siding on houses, for instance. You mean the vinyl stuff? I never really gave it much thought, and assumed it was somewhat universal, nationwide. Although I have noticed in some regions they have their specialties. Brick in some areas, stucco in others. I agree that the vinyl look (especially with plastic "shutters") is a bit tacky and fake, but every time I think about an alternative, vinyl siding wins. Brick? Nobody here will spend the money, at least in the middle class. Stucco? Almost unheard-of. Genuine wood and paint? Getting more and more rare. It looks nice, but the dampness, and cold, wet winters here really beat on it and make it a maintenance headache.
Check out the village of Pittsford just for curiosity, not to live necessarily. They don't allow vinyl siding, which at first I thought was snooty and overbearing. But it does give the place a whole different, classier, more authentic look and feel. While you're out there, check out the eastern suburbs in general. Fairport/Perinton, Victor, Honeoye Falls, Webster, etc. It's different than the west side. It's a little hillier, and a little more interesting as far as topography, I think.
I always took basements for granted, too. It's not really a choice as much as a necessity. When you build a house up here, the footings need to be almost 4 feet down to get below the frost line. So you have to have at least that much basement. But if you go down just another foot or so, you have room to put your furnace, water heater, and some shelves. You see this type of basement in some older houses, where you have to stoop down to move around down there. Most of the suburban houses built during the boom in the 60s-80's went another foot or two lower, so you can comfortably walk around and do stuff down there. Now the trend is to go with even taller basements, which make them true living spaces. Some are finished and spectacular. Our friends have a really nice house and their basement opens out back to the pool area and they entertain down there. Their basement is nicer than most living rooms I've seen.
Basements are cool. Some can be a pain with dampness or occasional flooding, especially in older houses. But basically they are really cheap extra square footage to store your stuff, have a workshop or exercise area, or a teen hangout.
Politics are very lefty in the city, but with different flavors depending on the neighborhood. As you draw concentric rings around the city moving out into the suburbs and beyond, it gets progressively more right leaning, but with a mix. As you get out further into neighboring counties, it tends to be very right-leaning. But it seems most people tend not to flaunt their politics. You'll find others with libertarian leanings. In general New York State is very lefty as far as taxes, regulations, and gun control, for instance. Taxes especially can be truly shocking.
Finding blue collar work here is amazingly easy for someone with a good work ethic. Skilled tradespeople do really well here, I think in part because we don't have as many illegal laborers competing for jobs as other places. From what I hear, truck drivers are in big demand and can do very well. If you can do other blue collar trades you could do pretty well: $50-100k, especially if you have a little entrepreneurial aptitude. For instance, independent plumbers can easily make six figures, which goes a long way here.
Be careful in the city. It has very few areas that I consider truly safe, and many that are horrible. The nice neighborhoods are pretty cool, but expensive, and the taxes are terrible. Rochester schools are worse than you can imagine. But the suburban schools tend to be pretty decent, as far as public schools go. There seems to be a small but enthusiastic and successful home school community here.
If you have trouble with winter, this is a terrible place. It's not just that it gets cold and snowy. It's that it is also dark, and wet, and it lasts forever. You have been warned.
The salt and rust is a real pain, but you can sort of stay ahead of it if you're vigilant about washing and waxing your cars and touching up any chips or scratches immediately. Some years ago my car broke down in New Mexico and the mechanics at the dealership all gathered around to stare with amazement at the underside of my car. I always assumed a car's undercarriage was supposed to be sort of rusty.
There are a couple of really good Mexican restaurants, but they are few and far between compared to the southwest. There are pretty good options for other ethic restaurant choices, for a small city.
This area is fairly friendly compared to much of the rest of the northeast. But it's not Texas-friendly. And it's a lot more neurotic.
Good luck with your plans, and feel free to ask any other questions I can try to help with.
Jobs? I'm a truck driver and blue collar is my thing. I have a degree from UT, but office work isn't my thing. I gather the job market is mostly lower- to middle-paying jobs?
I wouldn't say mostly. U of R is a big employer here with many high paying research and teaching jobs. I have worked in the software industry for over a decade in Rochester and know many others who have done the same. I feel like there is a decent balance between jobs around here depending on what your qualifications are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123
Education? We have two daughters, 7 and 5. Our eldest is in a gifted and talented program here, but we have discussed homeschool before, as neither of us really find public schooling to be attractive. I know this varies widely by state, and in Texas, it's thankfully lax - basically, if you present a lesson plan, they will release the child's education to you. What is the situation in NY? If it's untenable, I've done some reading on Rochester metro schools but don't have it all straight in my head. Are they largely decent?
I don't have kids but many suburbs around here have very good public schools. Obviously look into this yourself, but I wouldn't write off public schools immediately. The City schools themselves are unfortunately not very good for the most part, so if you have a family and want to try public schooling, like I said you'll probably want to look to the burbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123
Housing? I alluded to how I find most homes to be rather unsatisfactory, but of course we would rent to start off with. What are decent areas to rent in? I definitely don't have a generous budget.
To your basement comments, you have to realize how old some city houses are. I don't know where your sister in law lives in the city, but for example I own a city house built in 1900. Serial killer status like you mentioned(we actually call it the dungeon)...but it was a different time when they built these houses. I use it for basic storage and that's about it, I rarely ever go down there, so it's not a big deal.
You also mention spending a lot of time in Greece, which part? I grew up in Greece and as you probably know it's huge, there are certainly nicer and worse parts. Generally, the eastern suburbs of Rochester are held in a slightly higher regard these days, maybe a different town would have houses more like what you're looking for. Fences certainly aren't unheard of, just depends on the neighborhood. Some neighborhoods in Greece are like you mentioned, backyards wide open for everyone to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123
City status? All over the northeast, I see things like village, town, township, etc. I'm not familiar with this. Do these make any real difference?
The names themselves don't make a huge difference, but when you look towards buying a home you'll want to figure out the taxes for a given area, that seems like it can change depending on what jurisdiction(s) you fall under.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123
Lastly, just sell me on the area. Yes, I'm gathering information, but I'd also like to put my mind at ease.
You mention Watkins Glen race track, are you a racing fan? I go down there multiple times a year, it's a huge perk to have a world class track like that an hour and a half away. Stuff like that is why I like the area, I live in the city and can walk downtown in 20-30 minutes to festivals or whatever over the summer for things to do, but also have stuff like The Glen or state parks a short drive away. Toronto is a cool city and not a far drive, NYC is reasonably accessible as well. Other bigger cities are cool to go visit, but I find Rochester an easy place to live.
Haven’t visited in a while. So, the new thought is to pick a >75k property in Rochester proper, or else go way outside. For our daughters, my wife would homeschool. For work, I would...? I am tired of trucking and have no interest in getting my CDL there. I’d rather use my business degree and what used to, at one time, be a talent for writing.
So while I am not in love with architecture up there, I guess we are looking now at cheap houses, preferably with a garage.
Schools aren’t relevant unless homeschool regs are stupid?
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