Monte Vista Historical Association (San Antonio, Alamo: HOA, new house, landscaping)

[TXRose]

My husband and I are considering a move this year and Monte Vista is one of the areas we are looking at. I've lived in the San Antonio area since I was 6, and have heard mild horror stories about how difficult it can be to work with the MVHA. If we buy in MV, we'll probably be getting something that needs some fixing up...we are DIYers and like putting sweat equity into a home.

I've reviewed the MVHA website, but does anyone have first hand experience with working with them and the city on renovations? Chances are we wouldn't do major exterior renovations (additions, etc.) but will do landscaping, and possibly a fence if needed. We'd also love to remodel a kitchen and bathrooms, replace flooring, etc. What kind of approval (if any) is needed for interior projects? We love the area and would definitely want to preserve the integrity and historical nature of the home, but don't want to be too restricted on some of the more interior renovations.

Additionally, if you know of any online resources that would help with these types of questions please pass them on.

Thank you, in advance, for your help.

[Montirob]

I would DM dvlpr who posts on this forum. If I remember correctly, he lives in Monte Vista.

As far as renovations, because MV is a historic district, anything you touch outside (landscaping, fencing, exterior painting, etc.) would need to be reviewed with the city's Historic Design Review Commision. If you are repairing or replacing "in-like-kind", i.e. painting white trim "white", the process is fairly easy and does not have to go before the full HDRC board. Check out Historic Preservation on the city's website.

Interior work is not specifically covered, so in theory you could renovate the interior to your heart's content. Just remember to be sensitive to the history of the home in any interior remodeling, and you'll be fine.

[Eleanor Rigby]

From what I've heard, you can do whatever you like to the interiors, provided you don't change the footprint of the structure itself. That means you could even knock down all of the interior walls, so long as you don't do anything to the exterior walls.

The biggest nightmare I've heard in the past few years about Monte Vista is from someone who put in a wall, and had to jump through a bunch of hoops. If you're just going to put up fencing in the backyard, or maybe some sort of low fencing in the front, you should be ok. This person put in an eight foot high stone wall all the way around, so that required a lot more vetting than just some minor fencing.

[mrstxcop]

my mother's cousin owned(s) a home in MV --- she is currently selling it --- she is an elderly lady, single and not able to get around real well --- she lives on a budget --- the outside of her home, mostly in the detached garage, needed work ---

apparently she was feeling "hounded" by the HOA and finally decided to put her house on the market and move --- she said they were pretty relentless with her ---

now of course, this is all just her side of the story and for all i know it could be totally different but i know it was just more than she could handle ---

[Chaka]

We're in a different historic district and each has its own guidelines, but there are some common standards. So take this for what it's worth.

The historic requirements are for the exterior, so paint, fence, additions, removing portions, etc will all have to be approved. The difference between an historic society and an HOA (As far as I know, Monte Vista doesn't have an HOA), is that the former seeks to preserve the architectural heritage of the neighborhood, rather than keeping everything uniform. So your house can look drastically different from your neighbor's, provided it's within the appropriate historic guidelines for when the house was built.

A fence would be subject to historic review, but provided it's within reason, it should not be a problem.

Interior modifications aren't subject to review by the historic commission, but are subject to code compliance - everything needs a permit. It's worth getting them.

Our own historic guidelines used to be pretty lax, but as people started fixing up houses, they started paying much more attention and can be a PITA to some, but those are the people who usually do some totally inappropriate stuff. OTOH, some new houses in our historic neighborhood are very modern (not suburban modern, but more artsy/futuristic modern) and they really work well. So they're not trying to make everything look like 1880, but they are trying to avoid the area looking like your favourite suburban subdivision in any town USA.

FWIW - we gutted our house entirely. The exterior structure has been left unchanged, and paint color has been modified only slightly (white white to off-white almost barely yellow). Interior-wise, we preserved everything that was preservable (long leaf pine floors, bead board in the kitchen, trims, windows, etc), and re-did what was not (bead board in the bathroom which was rotten). Our kitchen looks more Jetsons than 1880s, but color and material-wise, it works. Our bathrooms are fairly modern simply because the older style wasn't going to work with the space allowable (original bathrooms didn't exist, what's there is a porch that was enclosed sometime in the 30s to create bathrooms). Our fireplace will use the original mantle (with columns to match those on the porch). One bedroom will have bamboo flooring because the original floor in that room was not salvagable. Some rooms have tile for the same reason. It's not been a problem with our guidelines. MV may be a bit more strict, but from what I've heard, they follow the same policies.

One big one to consider - windows. Typically, aluminum windows aren't allowable. So if you need to upgrade to double pane/insulated windows, you'll need to go with the historically accurate ones. For our house with 3ftx8ft windows, that's anywhere from $800-1000 each. Ouch. (We ended up keeping the old ones for now)

[WilGar]

My dealings with the MVHA and the Historical Committee were laughable.

An example, the property had window A/C units. I wanted to upgrade to a central system. No one liked my placement of the compressors, but none had a solution. I finally showed another house that had theirs situated on a back porch roof as I proposed. They finally relented.

When the city inspector came to inspect the installation, the access to the units required stepping through a huge original window. The inspector demanded a door be in place as his inspection manual required.

When I laughed that maybe that was not the view of the Historical District and that some sanity should prevail, I had to make another visit downtown and get an inspector whose girth could make it through the window.

The MVHA has a more bloated view of the neighborhood than is justified.They live in an isolate bubble. The local school is failing and those with children pay tuition at Alamo Heights or to a private school.

There are few restaurants, cleaners or shopping opportunities.

I would highly recommend Alamo Heights, Terrell Hills or Olmos Park. None has a homeowners' association and are much more "Let Live" . Additionally, you would live in the area's top rated school district.

[TXRose]

We have looked in AH/TH for a couple months now and have not been able to find anything that suits our needs and is not only within our budget, but what we think is a reasonable price for what we're getting. We're looking for a min. of 1500 sq ft, and it seems that the homes we've seen need so much work that we would not be able to recoup the investment because they are already priced very high (based on per square foot pricing). We do not want to do an addition, so the smaller 1000 sq ft bungalows that you could add on to are not an option for us. Chances are we will not be living in the house we buy when we have school-aged children, so schools are not an issue for us and it the school district certainly doesn't seem to be an issue for the home values in MV. Additionally, MV is more convenient for both of us for work.

[jwebtx]

We just completed a major remodel in MV that included significant changes to structure and exterior colors. The MVH and the City Historical were fairly easy to deal with. The key is to be prepared with detailed renderings of the exterior changes and arguments/analysis on how those changes are historically accurate and maintain the design integrity of the home. The historic review committee is a good thing. Without it, you risk the Biff & Mandy McMansions that have destroyed the character of AH.

Unofficial Guide from Experience:

1) Everything I say below is out the window if you have a crazy neighbor. Friends, a few blocks over, have 1 and the crazy bat is on the phone anytime they do anything (e.g., removing trash from the property or cleaning their windows). The police and MVH have been on speed dial for their relationship.

2) Change to colors or exterior structure = review board & city. The city will rubber stamp the MVH's approval so you have to have them onboard. You will have a much easier time making changes to a 50's or later ranch than 1 of the early 1900's "historically significant" homes.

3) Pay an architect the few $100 it will cost to do the drawings, appear at the meetings/hearings, and make the necessary changes to plans to appease MVH. You will save yourself a lot of time and grief if you do so.

4) Landscaping, unless you plan to til cotton or plant a redwood forrest, is not a focal point of the MVH and you could imo easily skip the review process.

5) A fence could be done without hastle if it is done quickly and matches the original.

6) Just because the house next door got something done 10 years ago (e.g., widening the driveway), it does not mean you can get it done today.

"There are few restaurants, cleaners or shopping opportunities".

What you talkin' about Willis? 1 street seperates MV from Olmos Park. It is 2 miles to both downtown and Central Market. Mulberry to 281 N provides easier and quicker access to the Quarry than almost all of AH enjoys (2.5 miles btw). Then, of course, there are the shops/restaurants along Main. If you want to go really far, you could go 4 miles to North Star Mall etc.

I agree the SAISD is a cancerous waste of taxpayer's money.

[Eleanor Rigby]

Without it, you risk the Biff & Mandy McMansions that have destroyed the character of AH.

This is hilarious, and very true.

"There are few restaurants, cleaners or shopping opportunities".

What you talkin' about Willis? 1 street seperates MV from Olmos Park. It is 2 miles to both downtown and Central Market. Mulberry to 281 N provides easier and quicker access to the Quarry than almost all of AH enjoys (2.5 miles btw). Then, of course, there are the shops/restaurants along Main. If you want to go really far, you could go 4 miles to North Star Mall etc.

This is also true. There is a dry cleaner half a block north of Hildebrand. Plus, it's easy to either drive down Main or take 281 downtown to places like La Tuna and the Blue Star.

[Ripshin]

I think it depends upon what the HDRC reps had for breakfast that morning. They can fight some odd battles - there's neither rhyme nor reason.