San Diego Underrated as a City? (Los Angeles, San Jose: real estate, renting, HOA)

[TheseGoTo11]

I've lived in or around two cities most of my life - Boston and Washington, DC - and generally don't like southern and western "cities" that lack real downtowns.

That said, I've been to San Diego a couple of times recently on business and actually like the downtown area as much as any other outside the Northeast, except maybe Seattle. I know a lot of people like San Francisco, but even as someone who is pro-choice and pro-drug legalization, I can't take the smug super liberals there, and a lot of the buildings look old and dingy. And don't even get me started on LA.

But you guys actually have a rail transit system people use, a walkable downtown, and somewhat interesting places to eat and drink that don't require renting a car. Plus, with the airport so close to the city, it's an easy place to get in and out of if you've got a meeting downtown.

I know a lot of the revitalization is new, but it seems SD is way ahead of other western cities in creating a somewhat interesting center city. You guys agree?

[sav858]

I think San Diego has done a great job at revitalizing downtown and turning it into a popular destination; it's done a much better job than LA has at that. It's still kind of small and a work in progress but I think it will only get better as more development occurs. We have a pretty good downtown for a city that was largely developed after WWII and one located in the west but of course it's still not on par with the northeast or SF when it comes to density and urbanity, but we're trying.

[jksouthbay88]

A little bit.I'm sure you would hear about Miami,SF,Las Vegas,St Louis before you would hear about SD.I went to Cleveland in 07 and it seemed like no one knew where SD was.Some of my Pittsburgh relatives think/thought it was part of LA County.I don't really think we lack a downtown but the downtown feel is def.missing.Yeah for some reason SD has the 2nd highest percentage of rail and bus ridership on the W.Coast.I don't know why.Me myself I think MTS SUCKS!But it gets you where you need to go.As being interesting?No,kind of lame.Well not lame but different.Like I said it is not DTWN felling and I remember when it was.I go through there nowadays and it kind of reminds me of a suburb that "is built upward".Not to downtowney to me.

[SouthCali4LifeSD]

I LOVE downtown san diego. give it 10 more years, and it will be stunning!

[tande1n5]

I think SD's inner city is overall going well, with many very nice, desirable inner city neighborhoods. Not really comparable to SF to me, as the extreme density there makes it a whole other animal... the rich/poor juxtaposition is somewhat inevitable there... however, when compared to other western cities - not usually known for great older neighborhoods (trash and build more further out) - I think SD's going great.

The problem that I see here (and by no means is this problem limited to SD) is that when compared to certain other cities (SF comes to mind immediately in the west), there is still an animosity from some suburban folks toward the inner city (nothing south of the 8). Coming from the Bay Area originally, hearing someone lives in the city doesn't bat an eye from the rich to the poor (there are plenty of those that prefer the suburbs, but they mean no ill to the city... they may just prefer the schools/more space/lower cost/insert suburban benefit here). Here, I've seen a certain assumption from many in SD where living in the city = ghetto. Again, this is hardly a problem limited to San Diegans... growing up in Sacramento, I can tell you that it's alive and well there as well. However, I think SD needs to buck this mindset to really take the inner city to the next level.

[kettlepot]

An article in California Planners Magazine rated the downtowns of the 11 most populous cities in California:

Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, Long Beach, San Diego, Fresno, Sacramento, and a few others, probably Anaheim, San Bernardino, Santa Ana, and Oakland.

The article rated San Diego's downtown second best in the state next to San Francisco. Considering San Diego's downtown is more an artificial creation than an organic growth, it shows that something has been done VERY right here. Give it another real estate up cycle to fill out and add housing for another 25k - 50k people downtown and it will be bustling in more areas than the Gaslamp and Little Italy. Plus, that "downtown" feel will extend up Bankers Hill/Park West and will meet up with the old style and now historically protected neighborhoods of Mission Hills and it's surrounding areas. If what needs to be protected is protected, and what needs to be redeveloped is redeveloped, San Diego's urban center will become a gem.

There is still a lot of bias coming from the North County and North City areas, about "south of 8." I don't know if that will ever change, but that kind of thinking will not be based on reality, and hundreds of thousands of people will know it's wrong because they will be living "south of 8".

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11

I've lived in or around two cities most of my life - Boston and Washington, DC - and generally don't like southern and western "cities" that lack real downtowns.

That said, I've been to San Diego a couple of times recently on business and actually like the downtown area as much as any other outside the Northeast, except maybe Seattle. I know a lot of people like San Francisco, but even as someone who is pro-choice and pro-drug legalization, I can't take the smug super liberals there, and a lot of the buildings look old and dingy. And don't even get me started on LA.

But you guys actually have a rail transit system people use, a walkable downtown, and somewhat interesting places to eat and drink that don't require renting a car. Plus, with the airport so close to the city, it's an easy place to get in and out of if you've got a meeting downtown.

I know a lot of the revitalization is new, but it seems SD is way ahead of other western cities in creating a somewhat interesting center city. You guys agree?

Boston and DC are among the most urban cities in country, and for you to praise Downtown SD is quite a compliment. That said, DTSD has come a long way, but it still has years to go before it can become a true urban paradise. Check in with us in another 5 - 7 years, and we may blow your socks off!

[wenzit420]

I thought downtown SD was pretty nice. I am from Boston so I wasnt expecting anything like that but It was nice and clean with lots to offer lots.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by tande1n5

Here, I've seen a certain assumption from many in SD where living in the city = ghetto... However, I think SD needs to buck this mindset to really take the inner city to the next level.

It's weird - I grew up in the suburbs of NYC and EVERYONE wanted to live in the city. The city people bagged on the suburbanites, not the other way around. There was nothing to be proud of in the suburbs, it was an embarrassment to go to an NYC party and have to tell someone you were from "Lawn Guyland". Being a "rich kid" was also a stigma, you needed to keep that quiet and present yourself as street smart as well, because there are a lot of rich kids in NYC too and they are all richer than you. Here the kids seem to really take these divisions seriously.

I think a lot of these stigmas (South of 8, Chula Vista is a dump, etc...) are from 20+ years ago, when the city truly was a wreck. San Diego is so spread out that it's possible to live your whole life in an exurban city and never even go to San Diego. It may surprise you, but many North County residents do not go to San Diego often and really don't know that places Kensington, Mission Hills, Burlingame, Talmadge or Morley Field even exist. San Diego city is just the crumbling, addict-ridden downtown where they had to go to Jury Duty 25 years ago.

When I first heard someone say "where's Balboa Park" I was stunned (that was last year, BTW). I work with several people who basically refuse to live anywhere that doesn't have an HOA or gates. I had never encountered that before I moved here.... where I grew up there is no such thing as an HOA or a gated community... that's Florida.

There is a certain provincial attitude hear that always has annoyed me. But the reality is that all the hip lofts and condos, all the cool boutiques and restaurants, theatres, museums and sports facilities are getting built south of 8, not in the suburbs. Eventually a lot of the children of North County-ites are going to be eyeballing the city for their first condo in Little Italy, DTSD, or Mission Valley.

San Diego still has a midwestern mentality with regard to lifestyle (big house, suburbia), but $6/gallon gas and the general trend of retirees, young families, and children of suburbanites to move back to the city might help change that mentality in the future. LA, by contrast, has bucked this mentality and is seeing mass gentrification of formerly very bad areas close to the city core. It only took 20 years for Poway to go from small, ranch-focused outskirts to traffic-laden and tract-home covered - with the same congestion and high cost that people were trying to escape when they moved there.

[tande1n5]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

Being a "rich kid" was also a stigma, you needed to keep that quiet and present yourself as street smart as well, because there are a lot of rich kids in NYC too and they are all richer than you. Here the kids seem to really take these divisions seriously.

Same with what I experienced in the Bay Area, and of course New York is even more extreme... if you were proclaiming yourself as a "rich kid" in SF, you might be telling it to Paul Otellini's neighbor in Pacific Heights. It was all about the "upper class in hiding." Here, and I don't mean to be rude, it seems like I'm hearing that every third person on the street is right up there with the swells...

Originally Posted by Sassberto

Eventually a lot of the children of North County-ites are going to be eyeballing the city for their first condo in Little Italy, DTSD, or Mission Valley.

I agree, in addition to many other factors, I think that many things are partly about not wanting what your parents had (baby boomers aren't pining for a Cadillac at least partly because it's what their parents hoped for). No one really remembers such a thing as growing up on 6th street and walking to the corner store anymore. Since suburban memories have washed through generations by now, young people may be ready to call it old hap and move back in the town when there's a firm kick in the butt like cost of commuting.

Since a city's urban mindset (or lack thereof) is attributed to pre/postwar boom a lot of the time, the interesting thing to me is: San Diego's actually an old enough city that the urban infrastructure is all there if it could wipe past the socal suburban mindset for a second.