Why doesn't SF have a subway yet? (sales, neighborhoods)

[Tomlcsc]

Of all the cities in the US, I'm surprised SF hasn't established a legit subway system. I get it that the Mission has the Bart, but it seems like a no brainer to me that SF could run a profitable subway system that has access to every other neighborhood in the city limits.

I mean c'mon, SF has the 2nd highest population density in the entire US!

[0'Farrell]

The bart kind of acts like a subway.

[Tomlcsc]

Yeah, but the Bart only covers about a third of SF if that. There are so many other neighborhoods that could benefit from a subway system. In specific, basically the entire western half of the city.

[hsw]

Doubt there is mass transit anywhere on planet that is "profitable" (at least to anyone w/common sense or basic math skills)

Mass transit is merely another form of welfare for both riders (most of whom live off either gvt welfare or off gvt/nonprofit jobs, more taxpayer welfare) and the >$100K/yr unionized mass transit workers w/better job security than any tech/financial or most other private sector workers

Besides, most of SF's economy (and tax base) is derived from cos. (and their workers) based in suburban office parks 35mis S of SF....and these BigTechs run their own private buses to their offices as perks for their poorer, but wannabe-cool workers who choose to reside in slums of SF...let shareholders pay for these absurd perks, not taxpayers...trivial costs in scheme of lavish profit margins of any BigTech but why should any US/CA taxpayer be forced to subsidize these lifestyle choices of a few underachieving yuppies/welfare queens?

[mdwstrnkid]

I have to agree with hsw here; only a few mass transit system in the world actually get enough in fares to cover their operating costs. In fact, I don't think that any system in the US comes close. Only transit systems in Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore cover their operating costs.

[Isebiel]

There's a Muni subway line going in to Chinatown. There will be more added, eventually, I bet.

[Ruth4Truth]

SF needs a subway system (especially going out Geary toward the Beach), but in this economy, it's not going to happen. CA's budget is always on the brink of crisis, there would be no money coming from the state to support such a project. Probably in order to finance it (aside from Federal support), local bond issues would have to be made, and possibly a hike in sales tax, or something, and it's iffy as to whether locals would want to pay for that. NYC is an older city with a much denser population, whereas SF got its growth as a result of the Gold Rush, it's a younger city. The absence of a subway does make you wonder, though, what the City Council does with its time. If there's money for infrastructure, though, what needs to be done all around the Bay Area is replacing old water mains that are deteriorating to the point that the water supply is becoming unsafe.

Mass transit isn't supposed to be profitable. It's a public service, like police and firefighting service. Without it's public transportation system, SF's traffic would turn the entire city into permanent gridlock. The streets wouldn't be able to handle the amount of cars for the high density population. Parking already is at a premium. Public transport also cuts the population's dependence on oil. It's the only civilized way to live.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Isebiel

There's a Muni subway line going in to Chinatown. There will be more added, eventually, I bet.

There is? When was this built? Where does it start, around Market Street?

[Cruithne]

Well if the pot holes in the roads get any bigger or deeper, maybe they can just join a few of them up to make a tunnel.

[MaikeerinWA]

Yikes. I read about the proposed Chinatown subway in today's Wall Street Journal. Sounds a little "porky," with the Board of Supervisors and Ed Lee hoping to deliver construction contracts to Bay Area developers:

The 1.6-mile line will cost $1.6 billion to build and draw just 5,000 new daily riders. Subway commuters would have to descend eight floors to catch the train and then walk the length of four football fields to connect with light-rail lines.

There is a cheaper alternative. A 2002 study by the city's transit agency found that a surface transportation solution to congestion on Chinatown buses would cost only $9.1 million to implement. The Sierra Club supports this plan, because improved bus service is more cost-effective and efficient than the subway.

Review & Outlook: The New Earmarkers - WSJ.com

Originally Posted by Isebiel

There's a Muni subway line going in to Chinatown. There will be more added, eventually, I bet.