Can you help me out with the COL difference between SEA and SFO? (San Jose: real estate)

[flyingsaucermom]

Who we are:

-We are a family of four (kids are older than 10) frugal living minimalists.. with cats. Our income in Seattle is about $155k + cash bonus ending this year (will be stocks thereafter).. mostly my husband who is a midlevel PM in high tech.

-Our monthly expenses are $3k (mortgage was paid off last year). Our savings will near or top $100k for 2017.

-Company pays for his public transportation. I use an electric bike for my work as a personal assistant/pet nanny in our neighborhood (my income, although variable, covers a substantial portion of our monthly expenses.

I think those are the key pieces about us...

The position is in Mountain View (I think!).

-What do we need to make in salary to replicate our savings situation in Seattle?

-Do the CA-based high tech employers provide or pay for transportation like Seattle's MSFT or AMZN?

-We would keep our Seattle home and rent it out. We would see a $1500-1900 cash flow after HOA, taxes and property management fees.

-We could handle a larger 2 bedroom (would want higher ceilings). I mean something like 900-1200 sq ft would be fine. We almost moved to San Jose about five years ago.. I know.. pricey...

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Besides real estate here will be the other higher costs:

- Utilities (for example, looking at just elecrticity and gas, while PG&E has a lot of hydro, it's not as much as utilities in the Pac NW, and, they also make you pay a carbon tax for their natural gas fired plants, plus nuclear decommissioning, plus pipeline replacement, plus San Bruno explosion lawsuit payout)
- Prepared food (either higher cost or small portion for the same money) - amazing restos do as well as they do
- Transportation (most employers do not pay outright but some will help)
- Insurance
- State income tax (which you don't have in WA)

[Chuck5000]

Super interesting question because it's complex. Without even thinking, my first reaction would be to say you'd need 80k more at a bare minimum. But that might be too low, and possibly even by a lot.

I'd check on tax treatment of out of state income for CA. CA taxes will be higher regardless. But this is marginal compared to housing costs. You probably need to learn much more about CA housing, and balance housing stock, housing location (yard size, proximity to noise/roads, etc), school quality, and commute.

You didn't state what kind of housing quality you're looking for. Housing stock in the Bay Area is very poor in the middle and lower tiers, and good public school systems are relatively rare even in the suburbs. If you live in one of those delightful small Seattle bungalows and want to match that in charm, the cost will be way higher. You will probably not get high ceilings, btw, unless you rent/buy a more modern home, $2m+ or 6k/month+ This is because of the bland working-class housing stock you will likely be choosing. Any old home with high ceilings is probably super high end.

I'm not going to surf craigslist or apartmentlist for MV, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, west SJ, etc, , but we were in the rental market recently. I think if you're lucky, you can find a small house with adequate finishes on a not-ugly, not-overly-traffic'd street in a city with decent or better schools in adequate (not close/awesome) commuting range of MV starting at around $3800 per month. Might require some luck to not spend $4000-$4200. These small 1000-ish sq foot houses often are on very small lots, from 4k to 5k sq feet, and might have only 6 feet separating them, and might have little or no tree cover. If you can't live in this kind of a crowded and hot setup, you need to think about spending more. And to buy one of these types of "low end" small single family houses in a good school district will cost anywhere from $1.3 to over $2m, depending on specifics.

Really desireable (renovated, nice yard, trees on your street, closer to 2k sq feet) 3 bedroom houses start, IMO, closer to 5k to 6k per month. To purchase, it's pretty bad right now, and there has even been a tiny bit of a slowdown, especially at the high end (3m+). Generally the competition is steeper the closer you are to the offices of the big companies. Apple, for example, has severely distorted Sunnyvale pricing. Google has done the same with MV.

You have a lot of quality of life benefits there, from what I can guess. You need to look at commute times: I know traffic in SEA can be bad, but maybe you don't have it bad there now. Time is precious. And you might have it pretty bad here depending on the location particulars you want. In the end, I cannot imagine that making this move is worth it for you unless you two can get to 300k+ income.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by Chuck5000

Super interesting question because it's complex. Without even thinking, my first reaction would be to say you'd need 80k more at a bare minimum. But that might be too low, and possibly even by a lot.

I'd check on tax treatment of out of state income for CA. CA taxes will be higher regardless. But this is marginal compared to housing costs. You probably need to learn much more about CA housing, and balance housing stock, housing location (yard size, proximity to noise/roads, etc), school quality, and commute.

You didn't state what kind of housing quality you're looking for. Housing stock in the Bay Area is very poor in the middle and lower tiers, and good public school systems are relatively rare even in the suburbs. If you live in one of those delightful small Seattle bungalows and want to match that in charm, the cost will be way higher. You will probably not get high ceilings, btw, unless you rent/buy a more modern home, $2m+ or 6k/month+ This is because of the bland working-class housing stock you will likely be choosing. Any old home with high ceilings is probably super high end.

I'm not going to surf craigslist or apartmentlist for MV, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, west SJ, etc, , but we were in the rental market recently. I think if you're lucky, you can find a small house with adequate finishes on a not-ugly, not-overly-traffic'd street in a city with decent or better schools in adequate (not close/awesome) commuting range of MV starting at around $3800 per month. Might require some luck to not spend $4000-$4200. These small 1000-ish sq foot houses often are on very small lots, from 4k to 5k sq feet, and might have only 6 feet separating them, and might have little or no tree cover. If you can't live in this kind of a crowded and hot setup, you need to think about spending more. And to buy one of these types of "low end" small single family houses in a good school district will cost anywhere from $1.3 to over $2m, depending on specifics.

Really desireable (renovated, nice yard, trees on your street, closer to 2k sq feet) 3 bedroom houses start, IMO, closer to 5k to 6k per month. To purchase, it's pretty bad right now, and there has even been a tiny bit of a slowdown, especially at the high end (3m+). Generally the competition is steeper the closer you are to the offices of the big companies. Apple, for example, has severely distorted Sunnyvale pricing. Google has done the same with MV.

You have a lot of quality of life benefits there, from what I can guess. You need to look at commute times: I know traffic in SEA can be bad, but maybe you don't have it bad there now. Time is precious. And you might have it pretty bad here depending on the location particulars you want. In the end, I cannot imagine that making this move is worth it for you unless you two can get to 300k+ income.

Thanks Chuck.

We live on the Eastside and it's an hour or hour and a half commute for my husband. I don't think he'd be interested in a commute longer than that.

Housing... we had accepted a job offer about five years ago in San Jose and was planning a trip down to look at housing. I picked out a really ugly townhome in Cupertino and a small, but kinda groovy apartment in Los Gatos. In the end a magical counteroffer appeared so we never made it down.

We don't need a yard, but would benefit from nice landscaping.. something other than a parking lot..

You suggested $300k. My husband told the recruiter a base of $250k. If we include the $20k from turning our home into a rental unit then we're almost in the ballpark. I would be working as well, but only part-time and nothing resembling a living wage. However, we do make the most of it so it's still worth mentioning.