The San Francisco Trash/Needles/Poop in the Streets Containment Thread (gated, property taxes)

[DeanoSF]

Originally Posted by modernist1

I suspect we agree on quite a bit, however, the sidewalk traffic aspect being cited as vaguely exceptional pre-supposes a certain view (I note your auto-centric reference). The other two cities I referred to, London and Gotham, also happen to be largely 'walk friendly' towns.

I'd bet we agree on a lot.

This walk-friendly town is new to me as a place to live, though I've spent some time in many such places. I only pointed out that aspect of SF, as it seemed to be a stumbling block in this and another conversation where SF was compared (unfavorably) to my hometown of Houston, which is decidedly not a walking town.

In a walking town like SF, for better or worse, we are exposed to the street life. The beauty and yes, the ugliness of that condition is much more apparent than when speeding by in a car, as we did in Houston.

I love experiencing SF neighborhood-by-neighborhood on foot. I'm aware that I live in one of the best, most privileged parts of town, but that part of town is not small. Though several distinct neighborhoods are encompassed, there's a "nice part of town" that stretches roughly end-to-end for 7 miles wide by 3 miles deep, by my measure. That's fully the northern half of the city, minus those several blocks in the Tenderloin. And that's admittedly, just the part I really know so far.

Seriously, look at it. That area has nationally protected parklands, great architectural assets, city parks, cultural institutions, charming shops, restaurants, dense housing, highrise office buildings, tourist attractions and many distinct, charming neighborhoods.

I honestly cannot see any part of this half of the city, outside the Tenderloin itself, where the conditions are even remotely like those described in the hyperbolic rant about "diseased streets."

[modernist1]

Originally Posted by DeanoSF

I'd bet we agree on a lot.

This walk-friendly town is new to me as a place to live, though I've spent some time in many such places. I only pointed out that aspect of SF, as it seemed to be a stumbling block in this and another conversation where SF was compared (unfavorably) to my hometown of Houston, which is decidedly not a walking town.

In a walking town like SF, for better or worse, we are exposed to the street life. The beauty and yes, the ugliness of that condition is much more apparent than when speeding by in a car, as we did in Houston.

I love experiencing SF neighborhood-by-neighborhood on foot. I'm aware that I live in one of the best, most privileged parts of town, but that part of town is not small. Though several distinct neighborhoods are encompassed, there's a "nice part of town" that stretches roughly end-to-end for 7 miles wide by 3 miles deep, by my measure. That's fully the northern half of the city, minus those several blocks in the Tenderloin. And that's admittedly, just the part I really know so far.

Seriously, look at it. That area has nationally protected parklands, great architectural assets, city parks, cultural institutions, charming shops, restaurants, dense housing, highrise office buildings, tourist attractions and many distinct, charming neighborhoods.

I honestly cannot see any part of this half of the city, outside the Tenderloin itself, where the conditions are even remotely like those described in the hyperbolic rant about "diseased streets."

I live in Lower Nob Hill, and traverse large areas of greater downtown on a regular basis - it's not only the 'Loin that's affected. Of late, the number of discarded hypodermics has increased exponentially. I recently quipped somewhere, on this thread? (without a great surfeit of irony) that contemporary good manners in San Francisco means placing the cap on your discarded needle. San Francisco is a gem of a city, ever see those lines from Dylan Thomas waxing lyrically about SF? and, yes, it deserves better.

[scirocco]

I live in the Funston / Presidio Blvd area of the inner Richmond district. Already keenly aware of the homeless problem and associated public health issues such as feces, needles etc. littering our whole area, there are some things that need to be seen to be believed. Then one wishes for the mind to be wiped clean of that image. Case in point, over the weekend, we walked on the trail linking Funston to the rose garden in GG park. About a hundred yards ahead of us, two people appeared to be looking for something as one was sitting close to the ground. We approached the two people and saw one of them defecate right on the trail, the other giving a few tissues to clean a bit , then the other proceeds to just do the same in the middle of the trail and no concern whatsoever about criticism or complaints. As we regard ourselves as more direct , a bit less un pc or vain in our sjw ridden city, I commented to the pair about what they were doing not really cool for others to deal with as they walk on the trails, it caught them both by surprise that someone in SF would ever say anything critical to homeless people. I was greeted with a shocked look and of course the ensuing rant centered on being homeless, heroin addicts and the need for a new system of govt.

The inner Richmond area is in rapid decline and will resemble areas of Detroit in no time at all.

[Dapper Zoom]

Originally Posted by DeanoSF

I love experiencing SF neighborhood-by-neighborhood on foot. I'm aware that I live in one of the best, most privileged parts of town, but that part of town is not small. Though several distinct neighborhoods are encompassed, there's a "nice part of town" that stretches roughly end-to-end for 7 miles wide by 3 miles deep, by my measure. That's fully the northern half of the city, minus those several blocks in the Tenderloin. And that's admittedly, just the part I really know so far.

Welcome to SF!

I agree that the neighborhoods you are talking about are exceptional places. But I think they only account for 1/4 of the city - (you'll want to exclude SOMA for your purposes!). Not many of the problems that are mentioned in this thread in those areas. Except for the tenderloin as you mentioned, all of market street, and certain areas around the Embarcadero and the wharf.

But don't forget the other 3/4 of the city. None of it is quite a bad as the tenderloin, of course, but that is setting the bar pretty low. NEW MOTTO: "SOMA: Not as much feces as the tenderloin!!"

[TCROX]

So the city encourages ( facilitates!) disabling drug use and then says to the user- OUTSIDE WITH YOU!
This is being orchestrated all over the US now and the money being spent is waaaay beyond what even the most left wing pro- vagrancy people had ever expected....
It would certainly seem that "public servants" and vendors want the poor and helpless to be outside, sick and starving (under the guise of being "free spirits" and you can't force them into supervised facilities).. isn't having hope, care , and safety at a facility MUCH better than what is being done to them as slaves for the tax money thieves?
Creating a desensitizing attitude among the non-"homeless" in regards to the "homeless" is what is being created - people live like garbage in heaps all over the place...like in third world and emerging countries.... and people just step over them and ignore them if they are not being accosted or becoming ill due to fecal matter etc.
Differences in the US: ...people are making huge amounts of money on this...taxpayers are being fleeced and under-served big-time, and the situation was created despite humane options..
Bring back the state hospital system...ASAP!

[DeanoSF]

Originally Posted by Dapper Zoom

Welcome to SF!

I agree that the neighborhoods you are talking about are exceptional places. But I think they only account for 1/4 of the city - (you'll want to exclude SOMA for your purposes!). Not many of the problems that are mentioned in this thread in those areas. Except for the tenderloin as you mentioned, all of market street, and certain areas around the Embarcadero and the wharf.

But don't forget the other 3/4 of the city. None of it is quite a bad as the tenderloin, of course, but that is setting the bar pretty low. NEW MOTTO: "SOMA: Not as much feces as the tenderloin!!"

I find your area of Cole Valley charming and among that privleged part of the City. Likewise, all of the Sunset district that I have seen and the Richmond district to the north of that, all the way north. Widening the radius around your neighborhood a large part of the Haight, Laurel Heights, Presidio Heights and Western Addition are beautiful, but I'll give you a few streets here and there which are less affluent, though not at all teaming with homeless and feces ridden as some would describe from far away. Over to Hayes Valley. Down into the Castro and Noe Valley. Further south into Glen Park. All are very nice, if not elegant areas.

Parts of the Mission are rough. The area south of Market near the Tenderloin is horrible for several square blocks, but by the time you get to China Basin and Down to Potrero Hill, the great majority is either building up or nicely kept.

I admit to being very new here, but that's not 1/4 of SF. It's more like 6/7 of it, with that 1/7 of homeless and terrible conditions fairly concentrated. I agree that, being so concentrated should make the problem easier to combat. Why this isn't the case is baffling.

[BeerGeek40]

Originally Posted by USDefault

Investigative piece on 153 blocks in downtown San Francisco. The lede:

Key findings:

• the survey discovered trash on every block surveyed
• vast majority of trash includes "large heaps of garbage, food, and discarded junk."
• 100 drug needles found
• 300 piles of human feces "throughout downtown" San Francisco
• young children walking to school regularly come across dirty needles and human feces
• infectious disease expert says downtown SF "may be even dirtier than slums in some developing countries."
• "The contamination is … much greater than communities in Brazil or Kenya or India"
• SF spends $60.1 million on "Street Environmental Services," i.e. street cleaning
• due to downtown contamination severity, half this amount, $30 million, "goes towards cleaning up feces and needles from homeless encampments and sidewalks."
• it takes 30 minutes to clean a single pile of feces on the sidewalk
• supervisor says, "We're losing tourists. We're losing conventions in San Francisco."

From a teacher:

The failure of liberalism, on display, for all to see.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by BeerGeek40

The failure of liberalism, on display, for all to see.

You understand it was like that during the Bush years, as well? And it was the Bush administration’s policies and lack of policy controls that crashed the system in the early 2000’s? And the status of homelessness remains so now during Trump’s administration so far without a single nod to solutions?

Ideologies are poor excuses for lazy intellects. Try looking beyond them into the human psychology of economics and social stratification for clues.

[Dapper Zoom]

Originally Posted by DeanoSF

I find your area of Cole Valley charming and among that privleged part of the City. Likewise, all of the Sunset district that I have seen and the Richmond district to the north of that, all the way north. Widening the radius around your neighborhood a large part of the Haight, Laurel Heights, Presidio Heights and Western Addition are beautiful, but I'll give you a few streets here and there which are less affluent, though not at all teaming with homeless and feces ridden as some would describe from far away. Over to Hayes Valley. Down into the Castro and Noe Valley. Further south into Glen Park. All are very nice, if not elegant areas.

Parts of the Mission are rough. The area south of Market near the Tenderloin is horrible for several square blocks, but by the time you get to China Basin and Down to Potrero Hill, the great majority is either building up or nicely kept.

I admit to being very new here, but that's not 1/4 of SF. It's more like 6/7 of it, with that 1/7 of homeless and terrible conditions fairly concentrated. I agree that, being so concentrated should make the problem easier to combat. Why this isn't the case is baffling.

I'd ***strongly*** disagree about the Haight, Castro, Western Addition and Hayes Valley at a bare minimum.

[Dapper Zoom]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You understand it was like that during the Bush years, as well?

I think he's talking about the local politics.