A friend just visited San Francisco and the main thing that left a lasting impression was...yeah, you guessed it... (Oakland: living in, zoned)

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

God knows you and I don't agree often, but we do this time. Just eradicating homeless camps just moves the homeless somewhere else.

Believe me, Matadora. I get it. I had a camp across the street from my apartment building for over a year. Not only were the homeless themselves a problem...but their presence puts out a signal to non-homeless troublemakers that they can also participate in the free-for-all. (Drinking, drugging, being loud, trespassing, etc.).

But we really do need solutions that don't just move the homeless around from one location to another.

Hi Mystical,

Perhaps a bit of background can help you understand my views. I grew up and lived most of my life in the 4th largest city in the US...Houston. Houston has a lot of homeless folks as would be expected for being the 4th largest city in the US. However the homeless in Houston do not behave like the homeless here in CA. Night and day difference. No camps on public land, no shooting up in broad daylight, no bike chop shops in your face, no needles strewn around, no filth piled high, no human waste on public sidewalks, no dazed and confused people stoned out of their gourd stumbling around talking and screaming out loud. Why is this? Because Houston has ordinances against this behavior and the police enforce those ordinances.

A very interesting thing occurred recently while I was visiting Houston and ended up staying for 4 months (Nov 2017 through March 2018) to help my aging mother. I was downtown and noticed tent cities under the under passes. I was stunned to see this and wondered what was going on?

I soon discovered that the City of Houston was being sued by 4 homeless folks that were being represented by the ACLU and a federal judge blocked the city of Houston from enforcing the anti-encampment ordinance in Aug 2017, while the case was being reviewed. I arrived in Nov and in just that short amount of time from Aug to Nov, the city of Houston was starting to look like LA skid row. This is what happens when you don't enforce the laws. It's not about moving them down the road. It's about not allowing them to use public land for purposes it's not intended. It also forces them into shelters and into permanent supportive services and housing.

Thankfully in Dec 2017 that same federal judge cleared the way for Houston city officials to enforce the ordinance that prohibits homeless people from setting up tents and temporary living quarters in public places.

Again this is not about moving them down the road but forcing them to use the services available to them and to stop the homeless from using public land for purposes it's not intended.

Mayor Sylvester Turner said he was grateful the judge "has, for now, essentially endorsed the city's effort to strike a balance between preserving personal freedoms of every Houstonian and eliminating threats to public health that have developed at and near encampments on public property in the center of the city."

[katharsis]

As far as putting the homeless anywhere they don't want to be (assuming that they are not a danger to themselves or others) -- I think it is a question of making it very unappealing to them to be homeless. To illustrate, an 18-year-old relative of mine chose to be voluntarily homeless for six months rather than live at home and follow his parents' rules until winter came and he encountered sub-zero temperatures with no place to stay after he had lost his shelter privileges. (I realize, however, that this would not apply to a place where there are no sub-zero temperatures.) Until he lost his shelter privileges, he didn't worry before then because he said that begging would get him a minimum of $20 a day, which was enough for food or whatever else he wanted, he could shower at the shelter, and there were public toilets available.

As long as people are fed and comfortable (in their opinion, anyway), they will probably not do anything to change their situation. I think that if they were given a choice of living in some kind of complex (whether a group home or individual VERY basic and no-frills apartments) or actually starving, most of them would choose to live off the streets.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by skygazer1

Obviously, I can glean from your posts, we have very different lifestyles. I am self-employed and semi-retired, you sound like work in downtown SF and commute in from the east bay daily? So, yes I can relate to your frustration with all the homeless around the area you work, it really must major suck. I hate going downtown because its such a bad neighborhood.

BUT, what downtown isn't more rough than the suburbs? That's a universal demographic I think, and the Market St/Mission/Civic Ctr/tenderloin has historically been the worst part of the city, for ever and ever. probably back to when they started to rebuild it after the 1906 quake! 25 years ago there was less homeless types than today, but there was more drugs, rif-raff, prostitution, gambling, organized crime, biker gangs, you name it, every vice under the sun has been through that part of town throughout its history.

So what are we going to do about a bad part of town? It a bigger problem than just changing vices, you need to clean up an entire mind-set that creates and maintains a red-light district.

Fort Worth, Texas. I go there all the time, at all hours, in every area, and have NEVER encountered a homeless person.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

No it's not what most people recommended. Most people just said give them free permanent housing for life.
Houston came up with a plan and utilized many resources.
Bleeding hearts are incapable of coming up with a sensible plan. They can only voice their demands but never offer up a plan for how to achieve any goals.

Are you trying to say that the supportive housing provided to the homeless in Houston was intended to be temporary? Before you answer you might want to go check that out for yourself. Hint: google "Houston permanent supportive housing"

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by ringwise

Fort Worth, Texas. I go there all the time, at all hours, in every area, and have NEVER encountered a homeless person.

Maybe you haven't looked?

https://www.star-telegram.com/latest...204857604.html

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...192588924.html

[TCROX]

This is what its really all about- the left want the "homeless" out there- almost need them out there to pull this kind of thing. Other countries and cities and states are doing this right- The left have no caring or compassion for "homeless" or anyone else, they have proven that-its all about money for people and "projects" more and more tax grabs coming if greasy gavin wins ..
Does anyone think there is NOT enough tax money already? Go ahead- bite the hand that feeds..let's see how the "vote" turns out.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-an-apple-tax/

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Matadora

This is nothing more than your inaccurate assertion.
I suggest if you want to hold a civil discussion that you not ascribe postilions to me that I don't hold. ....

lol ... advice noted!

We’ll endeavor to follow your lead on civility! Examples from just this thread so far:

Originally Posted by Matadora

Get up off your arse and do the leg work. ...

... This state is full of people of your elk, look around at what you get in return for it. ...

... You might tout that you know more than me or anyone else with respect to the homeless issue but you don't. You just like to blab that you do....
.

Originally Posted by Matadora

Just wow the ignorance and false assertions being parroted by you!

Originally Posted by Matadora

... you will soon see Sleepyhead and her sidekick Mutt swoop in ....

Originally Posted by Matadora

... Are you really this obtuse to have to ask this?
...

Originally Posted by Matadora

You just have no clue what you are talking about. Keep your nose in Sacramento where you live and stay out of the homeless issues SF and the Bay Area are experiencing ...

Edit: have a nice day!

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

lol ... advice noted. Edit: have a nice day!

Thanks because ascribing postions to others that they don't hold is no way going to lead to a productive discussion.

My words are very clear and unambiguous. Therefore it's puzzling when people put words in my mouth, twist things out of context, and go off on wild tangents with the falsehoods they just ascribed.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are you trying to say that the supportive housing provided to the homeless in Houston was intended to be temporary? Before you answer you might want to go check that out for yourself. Hint: google "Houston permanent supportive housing"

You can look this information up for yourself but since you are intellectually lazy I will do it for you.

Supportive Housing Facts

Supportive Housing Research FAQs: How Long Do People Stay in Supportive Housing and What Happens When They Leave?

So to answer your question..NO! it's not intended to be used to support someone for life.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Matadora

You can look this information up for yourself but since you are intellectually lazy I will do it for you.
.

... another example of how you lead in the campaign for civil discourse, I see! Kudos