Non-conforming spaces (sale, real estate, mortgage)

[PixiStix]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

If the remodel is valued at 50%+$1 of the original value then the house has to be brought up to all current codes.

Yes, I understand the new 50% rule. I've both built new & renovated on a barrier island. I will still maintain that given the choice, renovating on a current foundation (if it's solid) is better than starting from scratch- money & time wise.

[PixiStix]

Originally Posted by Sunshine Rules

Some great posts here regarding waterfront homes and the building codes.


There are very specific rules for construction and remodeling for coastal properties. The state of FL has an established Coastal Construction Control Line. Sarasota county also has a Gulf Beach Setback Line, which is seaward of the state's line. There is also a Barrier Island 20 Year Pass Hazard Line. So if you build, remodel or enlarge a structure on the seaward side of any of these lines, you may need to obtain special permits.

You get get a wealth of information regarding the construction and remodeling rules for coastal properties at the Sarasota county web link:

Coastal Permitting Header


A waterfront lot line is constantly changing as sands shift on the shoreline. Every time a waterfront lot is surveyed, that line is redrawn to coincide with the "mean high-water line." The beach below that MHWL is considered land held and controlled by the government for public use. Generally, damp sand at high tide is considered for public use and dry sand is considered private.

You will also have restrictions on changes to landscaping as categories of vegetation are protected, such as sea oats, sea grapes, saw palmettos, mangroves, etc.

Having spent a week last spring at a beachfront condo on Longboat Key, I totally understand why people want to live on or next to the beach. But before buying, it's best to learn as much as you can about the "what ifs" regarding construction, remodeling and rebuilding for homes that fall within those coastal construction control lines. The more information you have, the better choices you can make.

You are correct. Honestly, coastal properties are a nightmare with codes/regulations. Some are completely silly. We removed 6 trees during construction. Per the county, for mitigation, we had to plant 12. We planted 16 palms. They only gave us credit for 6 because not all the palms we planted were on their "selected list". Certain palms weren't on the list for coastal property but oak trees were. Who in the hell plants oak trees on the beach ?! We ended up planting some approved magnolia trees...

The rules are often changing with coastal properties so it's hard for everyone to understand what is accepted. You will even get different answers within the same county office.

The coastal lot we purchased has actually acquired 200 ft. of beach from the 1940 survey. The tide/sand line is always changing, etc.. Coastal construction lines are updated & changed.

It's just a moving target

[sware2cod]

Non-conforming and illegally finished living area that is below FEMA's Base Flood Elevation (BFE) is not only for beachfront and waterfront property.

It is specific to any property in a FEMA designated flood zone. However, many beach front and waterfront areas very low in natural grade, so those are most likely to have 2 and 3 story homes with the lower level deemed non-living area. Plus there are additional rules for V zones(V stands for expected higher velocity of water in a storm event, typically barrier islands and bayfront areas are in V zones) that do not allow the elevation to be made of fill dirt, so building elevated is the only option. Thus the newer homes are 2 -3 story along the water. The older ranch homes that are in V zones often were built before V zones were designated and those would be true non-conforming. However, you could build a newer ranch on the beach if the lot is very high in natural elevation and this would NOT be non-conforming and would be perfectly legal, since the BFE still meets current code if the first floor of living is high enough in elevation.

Homes that are outside of the V Flood Zone, but still in another flood zone (A, AE, etc), these homes might only need to add 1' or 2' or so of fill dirt in order to comply with required FEMA elevations. These are often a ranch on a slab versus a 2 story.

[d4g4m]

Hurricane Charley destroyed just about every home in Windmill Village Punta Gorda. A senior only co-op, west of the trail on the water that consisted of old mobile homes from the 70's. All the new replacement manufactured homes had to comply with FEMA placement rules that were not 'senior' friendly. Homes had to be elevated 5' to 6' above street level.
This required stairs, railing, landings. If wheelchair bound, a ramp was required to conform to federal rules. One of which is a 3 degree incline. So some homes have wrap around the house ramps or multi level with landings ramps. Some residents decided to set the new home on stilts, about 12 feet up. The poles and steel cost $25,000 Alot of stairs to climb.
After about a dozen were placed, 'the board' put an end to any more stilt homes. Didn't fit the look of the community having 28'x60 manufactured homes sitting on 12' poles.
There is a mobile home park on Longboat Key with really old units not comforming to any code. A storm surge over Gulf of Mexico Dr or even a strong tropical storm and that park is toast. If the park is a lot lease, the owners may decide to tell residents, 'no replacement for you' like the owners did to the residents of Victoria Estates in Port Charlotte.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by PixiStix

Yes, I understand the new 50% rule. I've both built new & renovated on a barrier island. I will still maintain that given the choice, renovating on a current foundation (if it's solid) is better than starting from scratch- money & time wise.

No argument here.

Originally Posted by PixiStix

You are correct. Honestly, coastal properties are a nightmare with codes/regulations. Some are completely silly. We removed 6 trees during construction. Per the county, for mitigation, we had to plant 12. We planted 16 palms. They only gave us credit for 6 because not all the palms we planted were on their "selected list". Certain palms weren't on the list for coastal property but oak trees were. Who in the hell plants oak trees on the beach ?! We ended up planting some approved magnolia trees...

The rules are often changing with coastal properties so it's hard for everyone to understand what is accepted. You will even get different answers within the same county office.

The coastal lot we purchased has actually acquired 200 ft. of beach from the 1940 survey. The tide/sand line is always changing, etc.. Coastal construction lines are updated & changed.

It's just a moving target

We deal with the same thing in MD with Critical Areas (1000 feet from tidal waters).










The above people built on an eroding cliff.

[sware2cod]

PixiStix ". Who in the hell plants oak trees on the beach?"

Oak trees naturally grow on beach front properties. Not on the shifting sands seaward of the dunes but no trees grow there.

Live oaks are very very common on barrier islands in the area. They are native and require zero maintenance once established. Some islands have so many oak trees that the homes are in the shade and the roads are canopied by the trees.

[PixiStix]

Originally Posted by sware2cod

PixiStix ". Who in the hell plants oak trees on the beach?"

Oak trees naturally grow on beach front properties. Not on the shifting sands seaward of the dunes but no trees grow there.

Live oaks are very very common on barrier islands in the area. They are native and require zero maintenance once established. Some islands have so many oak trees that the homes are in the shade and the roads are canopied by the trees.

For those folks that buy a waterfront lot to actually look at the water, I'm not sure how many of them run out to plant oak trees between their home & the beach.

I'm quite aware there are native live oaks on barrier islands.

[North Beach Person]

The days of clear cutting waterfront lots for a better view are pretty much over. One of our famous residents (name rhymes with Fancy) clear cut his and promptly lost 200 ft. of cliff a number of years ago.

[sware2cod]

Originally Posted by PixiStix

For those folks that buy a waterfront lot to actually look at the water, I'm not sure how many of them run out to plant oak trees between their home & the beach.

So you planted magnolias instead?

[PixiStix]

Originally Posted by sware2cod

So you planted magnolias instead?

We were able to plant magnolias on a different part of the property. It was a better choice for us in flexibility of planting area, the space we needed to fill due to their growth pattern & how ornamental they were.