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In 2012, the office of Insurance regulation changed the definitions on the
form and revised it. Wind mits completed prior to that had to be reinspected
and submitted on the new form; in most cases the insurance companies would not
accept any inspections on the old form. Many, many people lost credits due to
the new definitions. The biggest one was roof to wall connectors. On the old
form, it did not define how many nails were required. On the new form, it
defined that a connector had to have a minimum of 3 nails (most homes have two,
and therefore lost their credits).
The "old form" (from the HOA) was from 2008, although our secretary says we have more recent ones. Anyway, the answers from the old form to the new one are totally different. "Roof/deck attachment" was previously the third choice on the form, now it is A (no credit). Looks like the requirement was changed from 1/2" plywood/OSB roof sheathing to 7/16"; not sure if that's why the answer changed.
But this one gets me: The "Roof/wall attachment" was previously "Clips", now it is "Toe nails". The wording has also changed slightly, so I don't know if that's why the answer has changed. This is craziness to me.
Quote:
Wind mits on condos were expensive for the HOA, but they apply only to the
building coverage. You, as a unit owner, have a policy to insure only your
contents. If the HOA didn't pay to have the buildings reinspected (may not have
been approved by the board), you would be responsible for your own if you want
any discounts.
I understand my coverage is for contents, and the HOA's is for the building. What I still do not understand is why we BOTH have to have a wind mit report done. If the HOA needs it for their coverage, why are THEY not required to have the revised inspection form done (that can also be used by the owners). Aren't THEIR discounts cancelled because/if they did not get the new inspection?
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The fact that your discounts are different now than they were, is very
common.
Hmmm, well, my agent seems puzzled on why the answers are different from the old form to the new, so how common can it be? This is the same agency that the HOA uses, so I assume they're experienced with this stuff.
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I suggest setting up a reminder on your phone, etc, for your renewal date.
Unfortunately, it is your responsibility to know what major bills will be due,
and the fact that you didn't receive your bill, is no excuse for not paying.
That's how the insurance company sees it.
Did I say that it was not my responsibility? I was just explaining the background issues. However, they cancelled the policy the day after payment was due, with no warning and no way of getting it reinstated. For a customer of over six years, that is ridiculous. Obviously this company is just chomping at the bit to cancel your coverage and then stick it to you when you try to get it back.
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Condos, generally, are covered in structure by a wind mitigation form preformed
for the HOA by a licensed contractor, engineer or architect. The individual unit
can and frequently do have wind mitigation forms preformed by a licensed home
inspector but is limited to the doors and windows.
Well, again I go back to my previous question about why I, the unit owner, am paying someone to inspect the roof attachments when I am not responsible for the roof or the building.
Quote:
Your new wind mitigation inspection form should be good for 5 years.
Unless, as CoastalChic mentioned above, the form changes and the insurance company decides they're no longer accepting the old form, even if it's within 5 years? How is it that they just keep making the standards more stringent? So of course no one will get credits if they keep changing the rules.
Thanks for all your help, guys. Hopefully you don't mind my additional questions. Still sounds like quite a scam to me.
The "old form" (from the HOA) was from 2008, although our secretary says we have more recent ones. Anyway, the answers from the old form to the new one are totally different. "Roof/deck attachment" was previously the third choice on the form, now it is A (no credit). Looks like the requirement was changed from 1/2" plywood/OSB roof sheathing to 7/16"; not sure if that's why the answer changed.
To receive a C you have to have a trifecta of features: 1/2" decking or 3/4 tongue & groove, 8d nails, and 6" nail spacing. Older homes without a new roof MAY have the right roof deck but will most likely not have 8d nails, so it would be marked as A automatically.
But this one gets me: The "Roof/wall attachment" was previously "Clips", now it is "Toe nails". The wording has also changed slightly, so I don't know if that's why the answer has changed. This is craziness to me.
This is where most people lost their discount. The new 2012 form requires a minimum of 3 nails in every strap/clip/wrap. Most homes built pre 1995 only have 2 (but there are always exceptions). Therefore it gets downgraded to toenails.
I understand my coverage is for contents, and the HOA's is for the building. What I still do not understand is why we BOTH have to have a wind mit report done. If the HOA needs it for their coverage, why are THEY not required to have the revised inspection form done (that can also be used by the owners). Aren't THEIR discounts cancelled because/if they did not get the new inspection?
These inspections are OPTIONAL. No one is required to have one.
Hmmm, well, my agent seems puzzled on why the answers are different from the old form to the new, so how common can it be? This is the same agency that the HOA uses, so I assume they're experienced with this stuff.
Then he is either trying to make you feel better, trying to get out of being blamed for it, is frustrated by the whole wind MIT business like you are, or inexperienced.
Well, again I go back to my previous question about why I, the unit owner, am paying someone to inspect the roof attachments when I am not responsible for the roof or the building.
You, as a property owner, are still paying for the wind MIT even when the HOA does it, through your HOA fees. Inspections in condo units cost the HOA a lot of money. If they can't get approval from the board, then the individual owner would be responsible IF they CHOOSE to get one.
Unless, as CoastalChic mentioned above, the form changes and the insurance company decides they're no longer accepting the old form, even if it's within 5 years? How is it that they just keep making the standards more stringent? So of course no one will get credits if they keep changing the rules.
This is exactly right. The form wasn't designed to give every home credits. It was designed to give discounts when the home was built beyond code or had mitigation features added.
Thanks for all your help, guys. Hopefully you don't mind my additional questions. Still sounds like quite a scam to me.
We've done almost 10,000 inspections over the past 8 years, and what I can tell you is you were probably receiving discounts before that you most likely shouldn't have been.
What year was your unit built? When was the roof last replaced?
The three or more rule is for a strap that goes over the top of the rafter and is bent down on the other side. Two nails minimum on the origin side and one nail minimum on the bent side..
The three or more nails rule is for all straps/clips, or wraps. All connectors have to have three nails, not just those that wrap. If they wrap, they must have 2 on the face side, and one on the back.
We've done almost 10,000 inspections over the past 8 years, and what I can tell you is you were probably receiving discounts before that you most likely shouldn't have been.
What year was your unit built? When was the roof last replaced?
The unit was built in 1988. Don't know when or if the roof was ever replaced. I know our fees went up this year because they had not been adequately funding the reserve fund for roof replacement, based on current costs.
Thank you for your help; your answers are certainly helping clear up some of the mystery.
I assume the "contents coverage" policy gives discounts related to roof/straps etc because they assume your roof is more likely to stay intact during a windstorm in certain situations. If the roof tears apart it will allow wind and rain to enter your unit, then the contents will be blown apart/soaked.
The unit was built in 1988. Don't know when or if the roof was ever replaced. I know our fees went up this year because they had not been adequately funding the reserve fund for roof replacement, based on current costs.
Thank you for your help; your answers are certainly helping clear up some of the mystery.
A home built in 1988 would almost certainly have staples as the roof deck attachment, not 8d nails. So the original inspector marked the wrong box, even based on definitions at the time. Be thankful you got a discount as long as you did!
If the home has items that classify as impact, the inspector is required to provide the Florida Product Approval Number of the Notice of Acceptance on the Wind Mit. It is all about what you can prove - not what it appears to be. That being said, those numbers need to be on stickers, etchings or tags attached to those openings. For example, I have done Wind Mits on houses that had lexan hurricane shutters, metal accordion shutters, tarping systems, impact skylights and impact rated garage doors - and each opening needs to be verified.
The problem is when the tags have been removed or the garage door has been insulated and the labels are covered an inspector cannot know the rating of a door. To be approved and have impact rating, the item must have been impact tested in an independent testing center where they launch projectiles at them. There's lots of doors out there that would be impact if they were tested but were not tested and don't have approval.
So, the short answer is you need to provide the FL Approval Number / NOA of each opening. If those labels are missing and there is no other documentation available, guessing is not an option.
Location: Sarasota/ Bradenton - University Pkwy area
4,619 posts, read 7,541,245 times
Reputation: 6036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Koester
If the home has items that classify as impact, the inspector is required to provide the Florida Product Approval Number of the Notice of Acceptance on the Wind Mit. It is all about what you can prove - not what it appears to be. That being said, those numbers need to be on stickers, etchings or tags attached to those openings. For example, I have done Wind Mits on houses that had lexan hurricane shutters, metal accordion shutters, tarping systems, impact skylights and impact rated garage doors - and each opening needs to be verified.
The problem is when the tags have been removed or the garage door has been insulated and the labels are covered an inspector cannot know the rating of a door. To be approved and have impact rating, the item must have been impact tested in an independent testing center where they launch projectiles at them. There's lots of doors out there that would be impact if they were tested but were not tested and don't have approval.
So, the short answer is you need to provide the FL Approval Number / NOA of each opening. If those labels are missing and there is no other documentation available, guessing is not an option.
Thanks Michael for your post, I wanted to give you a positive rep for it but the system requires me to spread my reps around before I can give you another.
The real problem here is Gov. Scott. He wrote the new insurance regulations with the lobbyists from the insurance companies. I know people who have had their insurance double even with good credit. This is one of the reasons the prices of our homes are not recovering. We are still number 1 in the country for foreclosures. This is just another reason to give your house back. No jobs, ridiculously high grocery prices, excessive insurance for home and car. People would be much better just leaving this state to the drug addicts, and criminals. The governor has showed us that he doesn't want the retired working class here. This is the only state that I know of where the owner of a plumbing business is the only one who has to be licensed. His employees, who come out to your home to fix your pipes are not licensed, just trained by the owner. This is just another way for Scott to make money for business, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY. Want to get a room painted, need a permit. want to get a new front door in charlotte county YOU NEED A PERMIT. The permits for a pool cage cost more than the pool cage itself. My house is still 40,000 under water. Anything that breaks is staying broken. When I leave here it will be a payback of a mess. TOOOOOOO bad
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Product approval.
