Best dog breed for survival in the wild or TSHTF Event and why. (farm, houses)
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I am military trained and grew up the sticks. My whole life we were taught to prep for certain things from having no power during the winter (which happened every other year) to communist take over of the US. My folks were a bunch of backwoods paranoid meth heads and the military just reenforced this, what can you do?
But between my childhood and military as well as various survival/prepper forums, people never talk about dogs. I rarely see dogs brought into the survivalist or prepper lifestyle and all current anthropological data we have suggest dogs were one of the largest reasons we survived when other species did not (IE neanderthals).
So what do all you y'all survivalist/preppers/Dog trainers think the best possible dog breed would be to have with you?
My current Criteria:
Protection
Sounding the alarm
Durable to various weather conditions
Obedience
Hunting
Scenting
(Feel free to post suggestion to add to this list)
P.S looking for opinions on the best all around breed and why, please avoid "get a mastiff for protection" or "an Aussie for herding your survival sheep" or "a wolf hybrid for hunting". Not helpful.
I am a former show-dog handler (large breeds) during my youth (I'm retired now). Your first 4 criteria don't really square with the last 2. I fell in love with German Shepherds back when I was a handler, and have always had 2-3 of them around the house since my 20s. You can't go wrong with Sheps, Dobes, or Rotties when it comes to intelligence, trainability, obedience, gentleness with children, ability to live in all types of weather, and all-round reliable watchdogs. They can even be trained to attack and release, without becoming mean. These are working breeds, and they take their mission seriously.
They do not make good hunting dogs, though most any dog is better than none. For hunting you need one of the pointers/spaniels/retrievers, which tend to be really friendly dogs - and while they will bark, they aren't known as good watchdogs. I don't know of any really good scenting dogs except the scent hounds.
My best suggestion is that you get 2 dogs: one from the working group to guard your home and family, and one from the sporting group for your hunting activities. I'd avoid the scrappy little things like terriers, unless you just want a barker. Wolf hybrids are not good for much of anything; depends on which parent they favor. Wild animals in general are not protective of humans or their livestock. For a family pet I always recommend adopting a shelter animal, but if you have really specific needs, purebred quality stock from a private breeder ($$$) is the way to go.
A very old breed that was used for everything, herding, guarding, hunting, strong family pet with a lot of loyalty.
Super intelligent, able to do anything. They are the progenitors of the modern Border Collie and English Shepherds as well as the baseline breed for Australian Shepherds.
Their heavy coats protect them from deep cold to very hot conditions. Good eyesight, decent nose, loyal to a fault, their greatest asset is the fact they are very intelligent dogs capable of doing just about anything you ask.
While not as aggressive as pit bulls or rottweilers, they are still excellent guard dogs.
The breed was super popular in both cities and farms until after WWII when more specialized breeds bred to do a specific job instead of generalized breeds that did everything became the norm.
The breed nearly went extinct in the last part of the 20th century, but it is starting to be rediscovered and brought back by people that want a super loyal, intelligent companion dog that can do whatever they ask it to do. The breed is getting more popular with small homesteaders which is ironic as it was smallholders in Scotland that originally developed the breed. It's a good breed to be able to guard your home, herd your flocks, flush game, or take care of your baby.
For my money, it would be the perfect companion, survival breed.
Breeds such as the Anatolian shepherd or other working dogs have a lot of good instincts and the intelligence to use them, and make great dogs for the small farm or personal companion use, as long as you are able an willing to establish yourself as the alpha in their pack structure. Very vigilant at night especially, and completely dedicated to defending what they feel responsible for, they are a good dog for harder times. Some of the heelers and mountain cur dogs are good candidates too. I have German Shepherds, and love the breed. A friend has Russian Wire-mouth Heelers, and they are great dogs as well.
Any dog that will be of use beyond simply being a pet will require discipline and training, and lots of it. You have to be the boss, and know how to communicate what you want from the animal. A bit of patience is needed. Much like a lot of other things, many dogs will do, if you will.
I admit that I lack the chops of your other responders, lol! I have only lived with two dog breeds, Akitas and Basenjis, and of the two, Akitas are "it" for me.
I have had Akitas for over 30 years because they are intelligent, and very attuned to you as long as you work with them every day. In my case, "work with them" translates into "walk with them in a variety of places long enough". For an Akita, the walk is the hunt. A ten minute shortie just will not do the job unless the day outside is execrable, as it can be in the Northeast with blizzards and nor'easters. I'm not a breeder, and not a show person. I always bought good stock from reputable breeders.
I was told by a SAR (search and rescue) worker associated with our national forest that Akitas are "air scenters"? "air smellers"? They sniff the air directionally to find what they're looking for.
They are intelligent (people who don't understand what it means to "observe the facts, weigh the facts and make a decision" say "stubborn"). They are quiet - which means if they DO bark, there is a threat and you need to pay attention. They are calm and solid, and have astounding connection with their pack (in my case, my two children and me).
Originally bred in Japan to hunt bears in pairs - 1 M + 1 F make the best pairs. Male Akitas do NOT get along with other male Akitas.
I am not a hunter, never had the time to learn. However, when one of my cats did not come home - and she was elderly - I asked my male to "go find goodcat". I was close to tears. He led me through the back 40 (so to speak - my house bordered on national forest) to the place where goodcat had died.
To get this level of understanding, you have to understand: these dogs are not rug ornaments. You need to walk with them two hours a day (is my guess - that was my schedule at minimum, and my Akitas were uncannily attuned to me). I'd be walking the two hours anyway, I originally got an Akita because it was a waste of a long walk to do it without a good dog. As well, I'd prefer to be fit from walking briskly with good companion dog(s) than from a gym membership.
You never see their protective instinct come out - until there is a need. The one and only time one of my females ever showed unthrottled ferocity was when I had a delivery from a delivery guy who was a meth head. I was alone with two children. First her hackles went up and she positioned herself between me and the meth head - I had to back away. I told him to leave the package, or depart with the package, but I was not closing the gap and neither was he. He put his foot on the threshold. She growled. He looked inside. She began the bark of death. First time I had ever heard her bark other than as a "Hello" or "good-bye". If you have never heard the bark of death, it is unmistakable, and it is not something you want to be on the wrong side of. He backed off. He was so high that he crashed into a retaining wall while driving away. He backed himself out and kept going.
Akitas are not for everybody. They are most certainly not an outside dog - as in, it would be a crime to keep them outside when their nature is such that they need to be around the pack to develop the degree of attunement they have. Even if you have two Akitas, under the assumption that they'll 'keep one another company', they don't want to be away from their pack and it would be a crime to separate them from their pack. Akitas are not for wusses who will not take the time and care to go out on the daily "hunts". Let me be clear: when it was sleeting, windchill horrible, in a nor'easter, those hunts were significantly shortened. But not otherwise.
All I can say is, Akitas are it for me. But again, I personally do not have the chops in training etc. that the other posters have, and since I have found the breed that resonates with me, I am not going cut my nose off to spite my face, and take the time to experiment with other breeds.
I have worked with dogs professionally my entire life and have raised, trained and showed dogs for a long time.
For your needs, I would vote for a Beauceron if you can get one with a good temperament from a good breeder. The American Beauceron Club
They are a moderate breed with a lot of all-around working abilities and seem to have a combo of guardian and herding working bloodlines. They have a thicker, more durable, weatherproof coat than a Dobe or Rott. A moderate, agile and more natural conformation than breeds like Mastiffs or Rotts with brachycephalic heads and oversized bodies that break down fast and are prone to injuries and choking on their own phlegm due to breathing and orthopedic issues.
They seem to have a lot of traits from Dobes (Amazing breed I love) and some of the herding breeds like Shepherds. A lot of them actually look just like a 50/50 Dobe/GSD cross. This combo should provide a rugged and smart dog with great concern for his family. The breed club site mentions finding a good breeder and looking out for shyness. Shyness is the worste possible trait to combine with a protection/guardian breed, and leads to biting. I would imagine that possible shyness or sharpness in the breed comes from the herding blood in the breed, but should be easily avoidable by using a proper breeder.
I think it is impossible to find one breed that is bred for, or contains all of the traits you listed, but there are some all-around type breeds like the Beauceron that can come close. A working breed with a high drive can usually easily be bred to hunt. I think a Belgian Malinois might be another good choice if you can find one from a breeding suitable for a family; a lot of them are being bred with extreme working temperaments for military and police work, so there is a chance that they may be too smart and active for an average family who needs to provide stimulation and training for them.
I have seen these dogs personally at dog shows when local law enforcement was putting on demos with their working dogs.
Nor'Eastah
Two dogs could potentially work. I like your three picks.
And in terms of scenting, I dont need anything phenomenal, but better than most brachycephalic breeds.
I have quite a bit of experience with dobies and ours always had a decent prey drive. Our first one loved to chase blue belly lizards and our second always killed rodents and brought them to us.
Rotties fit the bill, but I have never known one to have a prey drive. But I did know a guy who trained one to herd sheep.
Also a big advantage is they can pull quite a heavy load.
Germans are always a good pick, in Afghanistan they were used as bomb dogs and were trained to scent various items and let us know.
"Wolf hybrids are not good for much of anything"-completely agree.
countryboy73
I see a lot of anotilians where im from, they are flock protectors but also keep the meth heads out of the farm houses and barns. A good choice, but I have known them to be overprotective especially towards strangers. Also, any idea how well they hunt? Or can be trained to hunt? The ones I have known, never showed much of a prey drive because they were flock guardians.
jane_sm1th73
A friend of my family's had 4 Akita`s and my primary issue is they over heat. They can be great dogs, but I have never known one to be trained for protection and still be controllable around strangers. If i had to protect a large piece of land from everyone in a cooler climate, I think Akita`s would be fantastic.
MTSilvertip
Do you think they would be capable of taking down a human even temporarily?
Also, what do you think about Norwegian Elkhounds or irish wolfhounds?
MTSilvertip
Do you think they would be capable of taking down a human even temporarily?
Also, what do you think about Norwegian Elkhounds or irish wolfhounds?
No question. I've seen a 45 lb Scotch Collie take down and hold a 400 lb boar hog, (domestic breed, but still quite a feat). They are amazingly tough dogs.
I've seen them send full grown bulls weighing over a ton into bellowing retreat. Don't let the beauty and good nature fool you, these are working dogs, and very good at what they do.
They usually aren't used as a guard breed because they aren't bred for aggressiveness, that doesn't mean they aren't tough.
One that my family had when I was a kid took on a black bear and sent it running.
They are better about being around humans than some of the other breeds, but completely fearless in defending their family. As herd dogs they take care of their flock, herd, or pack from all comers which includes the family.
One thing that sets them apart from other herding breeds is that they can and do hunt. They have a good instinct, really work pretty well for small game, (rabbits, squirrels) and probably large game with just a little training. The ones I have had have not as much for birds, but they could be trained as a flusher.
One main problem with the Scotch is that it was bred into breeds like the Rough Collie for show, which lost the herding instinct. Rough Collies make great pets, but are pretty useless as a working dog.
The Scotch is more like a bigger, more confident Border Collie.
If it's a breed you are interested in, you really need to look at how the parents perform as the show dogs are as useless as the working dogs are invaluable.
Irish wolfhounds are a very nice dog, bred for hunting and war, not really a herding dog and like many large breeds have a short lifespan usually about 1/2 that of smaller breeds, and can have problems with back and hips. They're a sight-hound so don't have a great nose for hunting but can run down large game.
Not a lot of experience with Norwegian Elk hounds, I've known a couple. Very loyal dogs, but both of the ones I knew died early of some kind of disease that if I remember right had something to do with their kidneys.
Very strong dogs, not overly friendly to strangers. I've never known one used as a herd dog so can't say much about that.
... jane_sm1th73
A friend of my family's had 4 Akita`s and my primary issue is they over heat. They can be great dogs, but I have never known one to be trained for protection and still be controllable around strangers. If i had to protect a large piece of land from everyone in a cooler climate, I think Akita`s would be fantastic.
...
Thanks for responding ! **slaps self on head** - of course I COMPLETELY MISSED the fact that you are in California, lol! You are right that a double coated Akita would be quite a bit more suited to more Northern climes - such as where I was, with all those nor-easters and such!
About guarding - I was advised by the professional breeder from whom I bought my first dog that you do not have to teach an Akita to guard. They do it naturally, as long as they understand via working together what you mean and who is boss. I found it worthwhile to really hone my relationship with my dogs by walking and spending time with them - they would stop dead in their tracks and drop, anywhere, if I made the kind of sound I made with my kids to let them know they were on the verge of getting into trouble. I did not train them to do this, they just did it.
Based on my experience with the meth head delivery driver, I believe the breeder that you don't need to train them to guard. My dog knew precisely what to do and how to do it. I was not lunging at her trying to keep her under control. Therefore, based on my experience with my own, I do not believe you need to "train" an Akita to guard.
Boy, I've got a challenge if I ever move down South. Maybe bite the bullet and get a place with a stream running through it, although everyone and his brother wants precisely the same thing - but probably not for my reason. Kids, dogs and I spent quite a few hot, muggy days wading through - and plunking ourselves down in - streams.
It will be interesting to see which breed you decide on and why!
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