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We have a 7kW generator (not quite the whole house, but almost) and it's a great thing to have. Runs on a 100 gallon propane tank. When a widespread and prolonged outage hit our area in October-November 2012, I was really glad I wasn't standing on line with all the other poor wretches trying to find gasoline.
We're in a semi-rural area and don't really know our neighbors that well, so nobody has ever stood begging and shivering on our doorstep. Our tenant goes and stays with his parents when the power is out for long periods.
I worked in the generator industry for Kohler and in their distribution network for over 20 years.
Knowing what I do, I would not buy a Kohler "whole house" (standby) generator. You're spending far too much for something that will cost you a significant amount of money to own and maintain. You're also at the mercy of their local distributor or dealer, who, if you're unlucky, is not interested in dealing with the consumer side of the business, and as a result will charge you commercial rates for mileage, travel time, parts and labor. If you live fairly far away from them, it will cost you a significant amount of money just to get a technician on site. Are you prepared for a $500 bill just to have the tech show up for annual maintenance?
That being said, Kohler builds some excellent products, and I would own (older) ones for sure. The current consumer products are very complex and have highly integrated systems using microprocessor controllers. This is great if you want to know everything there is about the generator when its running or not. However, when something breaks it's going to be darned expensive to fix, and you're not going to be able to do it yourself.
This isn't unique to Kohler by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something you need to consider.
If someone came to me today and asked what I recommended for a standby generator for their house, I would recommend Generac. This pains me a great deal to say it, because for as long as I was in the industry Generac (often called "Genecrap" by competitors) was considered the KMart/bottom end of the business. This is due to their poor market penetration in the commercial/industrial market, where Kohler competes with people like Cummins/Onan and Caterpillar. Generac can't come close to these products for a lot of reason too involved to discuss here.
But - Generac has focused on the consumer product end of the market, and done well. Towards the end of my career I worked for one of the largest Generac distributors in the nation, who focused strictly on consumer products such as home standby generators.
The Generac home generators are an excellent mix of technology and simplicity, and are designed for just that - you don't need a microprocessor-based controller on your home standby set - you need simple controls to provide basic safety and operational functions. This is just one example of how they focused their designs on cost and engineering. They also marketed the product to and for consumers, making selection, purchase and installation a fairly simple process for a rather complex system. Installing a generator involves a number of trades and experienced people - it's not a DIY sort of thing for the majority of the population. This is where my former business excelled - we had everything lined up within the business and could provide a turnkey solution from selection, purchase to installation and maintenance.
As a former generator person with more than two decades of experience working for both a manufacturer as well as distribution, I can say that I would attempt to locate an older "working pull" from a previous installation. Yes, I would have to coordinate the installation, but I've got the experience to do this.
For anyone else, I would suggest you find a qualified dealer and work with them to select the proper size unit and coordinate the installation. If they want to hand you off to others after making the sale prior to the install, find someone else.
A few pointers:
1.) "Whole house" generator is a misnomer. Depending on the size of your house and loads involved, a "whole house" generator will be very, very expensive. To run literally everything in your house during an outage would easily require 20kW to 30kW of capacity. Running load might be all of 3kW-4kW, but if you want to be able to run the AC or clothes dryer or range, you're going to have to design in that capacity.
2.) Make a list of critical loads before you even talk to someone about a generator. Many of the companies have online calculators that will walk you through the exercise, and allow you to add and remove things, giving you an idea of how each will affect the size of the generator required. You would be surprised at what you can do without if it's going to cost you $1000 more.
3.) Rule of thumb is that installation will cost roughly 50% of the cost of the generator. There are so many variables here that this is a very general number, but it's a good "eyes wide open" amount to start with. People don't often realize how much an install can cost, and can be shocked when they find out.
And finally, I wouldn't worry about the neighbors. I have owned several homes with whole house generators in the past. My favorite anecdote was when there was a major outage at one of them and the generator kicked on and we went about our business. A few minutes later a neighbor called.
"Hey, is your electricity out?
"Nope. No problems here. Just getting ready to watch some TV now that dinner is done."
<puzzled> "Uh, OK. Just wondered." <click>
I had a 20kW propane powered unit on the side of my house in a sound attenuated enclosure. The neighbors never noticed it because it was behind a fence, and my house was one of the first built in the neighborhood.
I worked in the generator industry for Kohler and in their distribution network for over 20 years.
Knowing what I do, I would not buy a Kohler "whole house" (standby) generator. You're spending far too much for something that will cost you a significant amount of money to own and maintain. You're also at the mercy of their local distributor or dealer, who, if you're unlucky, is not interested in dealing with the consumer side of the business, and as a result will charge you commercial rates for mileage, travel time, parts and labor. If you live fairly far away from them, it will cost you a significant amount of money just to get a technician on site. Are you prepared for a $500 bill just to have the tech show up for annual maintenance?
That being said, Kohler builds some excellent products, and I would own (older) ones for sure. The current consumer products are very complex and have highly integrated systems using microprocessor controllers. This is great if you want to know everything there is about the generator when its running or not. However, when something breaks it's going to be darned expensive to fix, and you're not going to be able to do it yourself.
This isn't unique to Kohler by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something you need to consider.
If someone came to me today and asked what I recommended for a standby generator for their house, I would recommend Generac. This pains me a great deal to say it, because for as long as I was in the industry Generac (often called "Genecrap" by competitors) was considered the KMart/bottom end of the business. This is due to their poor market penetration in the commercial/industrial market, where Kohler competes with people like Cummins/Onan and Caterpillar. Generac can't come close to these products for a lot of reason too involved to discuss here.
But - Generac has focused on the consumer product end of the market, and done well. Towards the end of my career I worked for one of the largest Generac distributors in the nation, who focused strictly on consumer products such as home standby generators.
The Generac home generators are an excellent mix of technology and simplicity, and are designed for just that - you don't need a microprocessor-based controller on your home standby set - you need simple controls to provide basic safety and operational functions. This is just one example of how they focused their designs on cost and engineering. They also marketed the product to and for consumers, making selection, purchase and installation a fairly simple process for a rather complex system. Installing a generator involves a number of trades and experienced people - it's not a DIY sort of thing for the majority of the population. This is where my former business excelled - we had everything lined up within the business and could provide a turnkey solution from selection, purchase to installation and maintenance.
As a former generator person with more than two decades of experience working for both a manufacturer as well as distribution, I can say that I would attempt to locate an older "working pull" from a previous installation. Yes, I would have to coordinate the installation, but I've got the experience to do this.
For anyone else, I would suggest you find a qualified dealer and work with them to select the proper size unit and coordinate the installation. If they want to hand you off to others after making the sale prior to the install, find someone else.
A few pointers:
1.) "Whole house" generator is a misnomer. Depending on the size of your house and loads involved, a "whole house" generator will be very, very expensive. To run literally everything in your house during an outage would easily require 20kW to 30kW of capacity. Running load might be all of 3kW-4kW, but if you want to be able to run the AC or clothes dryer or range, you're going to have to design in that capacity.
2.) Make a list of critical loads before you even talk to someone about a generator. Many of the companies have online calculators that will walk you through the exercise, and allow you to add and remove things, giving you an idea of how each will affect the size of the generator required. You would be surprised at what you can do without if it's going to cost you $1000 more.
3.) Rule of thumb is that installation will cost roughly 50% of the cost of the generator. There are so many variables here that this is a very general number, but it's a good "eyes wide open" amount to start with. People don't often realize how much an install can cost, and can be shocked when they find out.
And finally, I wouldn't worry about the neighbors. I have owned several homes with whole house generators in the past. My favorite anecdote was when there was a major outage at one of them and the generator kicked on and we went about our business. A few minutes later a neighbor called.
"Hey, is your electricity out?
"Nope. No problems here. Just getting ready to watch some TV now that dinner is done."
<puzzled> "Uh, OK. Just wondered." <click>
I had a 20kW propane powered unit on the side of my house in a sound attenuated enclosure. The neighbors never noticed it because it was behind a fence, and my house was one of the first built in the neighborhood.
Hee.
RM
#3..........I stated that my 20k Generac cost me a grand total of$6200 .......complete ( delivery and installation included)
I have only had it serviced once in the past 3 years and the total bill for that was $102. ( The dealer is 45 miles away)
Regarding size.........the first few dealers I went to who were closer did not do the setting up. Also they "yapped and yapped" how I had to make a list of everything electrical in my house so I buy the exact size. The last dealer I went to has licensed electricians and furnace repair men on his staff.
He laughed when I mentioned getting the "exact size"
He stated he only handles 20k because there is very little difference in price between the sizes and delivery and installation costs are the same regardless what size.
Mine runs every Tuesday morning at 11:am for 12 minutes..........automatically
I did not mean to imply that utilities were funded via tax money.
For about 15 years I owned a home in a city where the city owned the electric company and the NG company. Our home was on the city's power grid and on that city's NG. As far as I know none of my taxes went to pay for electric or NG.
^ I guess the question on a city/Municipal utility is are they stand alone, or connected to the Grid.
And can they "Make" enough power to supply everyone on there network (all the time, without pulling power off the grid).
If they can, In the event of a Grid Outage, and they separate from it fast enough that there generators don't get knocked off line by the grid instability.
Some parts of there Network are outside there control. The Regional Grid Managers, based on rules, and computer software may load shed them, Taking power they are importing off from there network, or Cutting off Export they are doing to the Grid.
If local power generation is less then the demand, the Municipal utility will start to load shed if they can, to protect the generators, If they can not shed fast enough the generators will trip offline to protected themselves.
All of the utilities coordinate their power production through a central point that is managed by the industry. They will project usage on a daily basis and plan for capacity based on those projections. This would include producing excess power that they make available to other utilities through the main distribution grid.
As far as potentially damaging their equipment, there are massive amounts of protective relaying in place at the generating plants as well as within the distribution grid to prevent damage to equipment.
I am not aware of any municipal electric utility in this country that is not a part of the main grid. This is a requirement for interconnection by both NERC and FERC. Certainly there are municipal power utilities, but they don't operate autonomously.
If a utility is unable to produce enough power for current demand, power is imported from other utilities based on standard protocols that exist within the industry. This is transparent to the end user, and to a great extent, the distribution system.
It's all very tightly managed and automated for the most part.
All of the utilities coordinate their power production through a central point that is managed by the industry. They will project usage on a daily basis and plan for capacity based on those projections. This would include producing excess power that they make available to other utilities through the main distribution grid.
As far as potentially damaging their equipment, there are massive amounts of protective relaying in place at the generating plants as well as within the distribution grid to prevent damage to equipment.
I am not aware of any municipal electric utility in this country that is not a part of the main grid. This is a requirement for interconnection by both NERC and FERC. Certainly there are municipal power utilities, but they don't operate autonomously.
If a utility is unable to produce enough power for current demand, power is imported from other utilities based on standard protocols that exist within the industry. This is transparent to the end user, and to a great extent, the distribution system.
It's all very tightly managed and automated for the most part.
RM
Just avoid looking in Alaska & Hawaii ...
Alaska Major Parts of it are on Stand-Alone Power Supplies, These "Cities" are more or less islands, there is no one to Grid with, or connect to.
Fairbanks is a interesting Case, They are on the RailBelt "Grid" (not really a grid, Its a "single" transmission line from the Anchorage area), They have a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) that can power the city for a few minutes, as there quick start power generators come online, in the event of a "Grid" outage.
Juneau get most (99%) of its power from a hydro supply about 30miles from the city, but the transmission lines run thru avalanche zone. So, they have 100% Diesel generation backup in the city (and for load peeks that they can not get thru the Hydro). There have been avalanche outage for weeks/months, and random citywide outage for a minute or two, Before they re-connect to the hydro, or fire up the Diesels.
We keep a portable generator for emergencies but we've rarely had to use it as our outages normally don't last more than three hours.
My utility (PP&L) offers a $50 rebate if our power is out over 24 hours. The last time they had to do that was 15 years ago, with a 5 day outage. I still pull the old gasoline powered generator out of the barn from time to time and use it around the ranch for construction projects. An electric chainsaw is a lot easier to manage for pruning fruit trees. For all that, I bet that generator has less than 100 hours on it. In fact, I know it does, because it sucks almost a gallon an hour, and I have never put that much gasoline into it.
The generator that has the most hours is the little 1000 watt camp generator that I use with my travel trailer. It runs 4.5 hours on a gallon of gas, is so quiet you can't hear it from 40 feet away, and cost me all of $149 at Coastal Farm. It's a 2-cycle, so I never leave gas in it.
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