The Hollings Society, because we need more men like Fritz Hollings in government (Charleston: credit, school)
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A former segregationist from South Carolina who was old enough to be my grandfather, who was from South Carolina. Even my grandfather softened a little bit on race before he died. But he didn’t serve Black people the way Fritz Hollings did in his later years. Saying “former” but not letting it go is interesting.
That's a weird premise given SC shifted to the GOP as it industrialized. I think most people would associate vocational schools with the right. I don't mean this as a criticism, but I don't think most people can envision an AOC doing a welding program at Greenville Tech. It seems like a lot of people on the left, especially the liberal arts people, look down on vocational schools today and say SC is too manufacturing oriented.
It doesn't make sense to believe vocational schools were the unique idea of Ernest Hollings or would not be here without him.
Given Hollings put the Confederate flag on the State House, a case could be made he did more than any one person to hurt the image of the state in the modern era. The newspapers never mention it. There's an infamous picture of Hollings giving a baby Confederate flag to JFK with a big grin on his face.
Hollings was a big tax guy. I don't think high taxes are what entice companies to locate in SC. I can't recall if he was for or against right to work but he was in the party generally opposed to it. Generally all of the corporations cite fiscal conservatism as a reason they locate in SC. They use the euphemism 'business friendly' but they mean fiscal conservatism. Hollings endorsed John Kerry in 2004 so it is hard to make a case he was a fiscally conservative person.
Every state has vocational schools so having those is not a competitive advantage. People on the left say our schools are underfunded but you are saying corporations locate here because of ostensibly underfunded vocational schools. They must be funded well enough if that is why corporations locate here.
Can you elaborate more? Perhaps make more loosely connected and dubious non-sequiturs?
Here the OP and Mutiny77 began commenting on Fritz Hollings and his born again ways and Bubba brings up AOC and welding.
As I say to my students, stick to the topic! Can we please stick to what CHSData posted about in the first place? He is the OP. The thread gets derailed yet again by you. Now we're going to have more monotonous droning of anything and everything that comes to your head. C'mon man...
[A Bubba refers to other people as Bubba. I'm not a student in your class. What you say to your students is not related to Hollings. I'm sure you say that to students who express a disagreement with you. You seem to have a disciplinarian personality which isn't good for a teacher.
You assert the thread is derailed if somebody disagrees with his political assertion we need men like Fritz hollings in government and that Hollings was special. A special person would speak out against segregation when there was still popular support for it. The only reason you know his name is he won elections by appealing to segregationists.
You have made off topic insults calling me autistic and about Shakespeare.
I made the comment about AOC after he tried to associate vocational schools with Fritz Hollings exclusively. My point is vocational students probably lean to the right.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 03-02-2022 at 09:56 AM..
I made the comment about AOC after he tried to associate vocational schools with Fritz Hollings exclusively.
I did no such thing. I simply remarked that SC arguably wouldn't even be a hotspot for economic development today without the leadership of then-Gov. Hollings. Here's the relevant excerpt from the linked article:
A well-defined, state-coordinated economic development plan didn’t begin to emerge in South Carolina until after World War II. Those efforts focused on the Palmetto State’s pool of nonunionized, low-paid labor, its favorable tax and regulatory climate, and state-backed financial incentives, all of which remain in its economic development arsenal today.
A defining moment in South Carolina’s postwar development was the election of Ernest Hollings as governor in 1958.
“Hollings immediately threw himself headlong into the development cause,” according to Lacy K. Ford Jr. and R. Phillip Stone in the spring 2007 edition of the quarterly publication Southern Cultures. “Unlike his predecessors, however, Hollings focused not simply on ad hoc recruiting measures and frequent visits with industrial prospects, though he did plenty of both, but also on developing a coherent state policy to facilitate economic development.
“Hollings wanted to construct a development policy that focused not merely on the aggressive selling of his product, South Carolina, as a place for business to locate and invest in, but on the development of an improved product – the state – to sell,” Ford and Stone wrote in an article titled “Economic Development and Globalization in South Carolina.”
Hollings set about remaking South Carolina’s business climate. During the 1959 legislative session Hollings took on a number of issues, including tax reform and the need to reorganize the State Development Board, in an effort to fashion a more aggressive and systematic development strategy.
He proposed a series of tax reforms, including the implementation of income-tax withholding, an increase in the top income tax rate to 7 percent and imposition of a two-cent-per-pack tax on cigarettes to raise revenue and bolster the state’s credit rating, Ford and Stone stated.
Hollings also pushed for improved technical education in the state, which resulted in the creation of a joint legislative study committee to develop a system that would attract new and diversified industry to the state. The state’s first technical college opened in 1962.
Today South Carolina’s technical college system consists of 16 colleges located around the state. Its goals include furthering economic and workforce development in South Carolina. Affiliated with the technical college system are the readySC and Apprenticeship Carolina programs, which provide training solutions to companies bringing new jobs to the state.
He didn't speak out against segregation. He told segregation supporters to accept the loss once it was struck down in the courts. Abraham Lincoln didn't wait for a court to strike down slavery to say something about it. Hollings didn't want the federal government to move into the south like it did after the Civil War.
I challenge you to provide a quote prior to the court decision in which Hollings speaks out against segregation. Last week you said it was racist to have a John C Calhoun statue in the public square. Hollings never spoke out against the Calhoun statue in Charleston or elsewhere in SC. We know he was a big fan of Calhoun.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I did no such thing. I simply remarked that SC arguably wouldn't even be a hotspot for economic development today without the leadership of then-Gov. Hollings. Here's the relevant excerpt from the linked article:
A well-defined, state-coordinated economic development plan didn’t begin to emerge in South Carolina until after World War II. Those efforts focused on the Palmetto State’s pool of nonunionized, low-paid labor, its favorable tax and regulatory climate, and state-backed financial incentives, all of which remain in its economic development arsenal today.
A defining moment in South Carolina’s postwar development was the election of Ernest Hollings as governor in 1958.
“Hollings immediately threw himself headlong into the development cause,” according to Lacy K. Ford Jr. and R. Phillip Stone in the spring 2007 edition of the quarterly publication Southern Cultures. “Unlike his predecessors, however, Hollings focused not simply on ad hoc recruiting measures and frequent visits with industrial prospects, though he did plenty of both, but also on developing a coherent state policy to facilitate economic development.
“Hollings wanted to construct a development policy that focused not merely on the aggressive selling of his product, South Carolina, as a place for business to locate and invest in, but on the development of an improved product – the state – to sell,” Ford and Stone wrote in an article titled “Economic Development and Globalization in South Carolina.”
Hollings set about remaking South Carolina’s business climate. During the 1959 legislative session Hollings took on a number of issues, including tax reform and the need to reorganize the State Development Board, in an effort to fashion a more aggressive and systematic development strategy.
He proposed a series of tax reforms, including the implementation of income-tax withholding, an increase in the top income tax rate to 7 percent and imposition of a two-cent-per-pack tax on cigarettes to raise revenue and bolster the state’s credit rating, Ford and Stone stated.
Hollings also pushed for improved technical education in the state, which resulted in the creation of a joint legislative study committee to develop a system that would attract new and diversified industry to the state. The state’s first technical college opened in 1962.
Today South Carolina’s technical college system consists of 16 colleges located around the state. Its goals include furthering economic and workforce development in South Carolina. Affiliated with the technical college system are the readySC and Apprenticeship Carolina programs, which provide training solutions to companies bringing new jobs to the state.
You and others are presenting the notion that without Hollings there would be no vocational colleges in SC. That is implausible. Supporting trade colleges doesn't make him 'special'. I don't think was any opposition to trade colleges in this state.
The bold statement near the top doesn't sound like a Democrat's platform. If you are cool with fiscal conservatism, why do we need leaders like Fritz Hollings to implement it? This newspaper columnist and Charleston Data are saying we need men like Ernest Hollings in our government. There doesn't seem to be any possibility that our current leaders are going to get rid of the vocational colleges.
Raising cigarette taxes and increasing income taxes didn't create economic growth. Excessive cigarette taxes actually make poor people more poor. The majority of them are not going to stop smoking.
I'm sincerely curious as to why these newspapers and Democrat politicians are committed to puffing up Mr. Hollings. He retired back in 2004 and wasn't in the public eye much after that. He passed away a few years ago. What is the point in talking about him now. These newspapers can't let him go. The columnist appears to imply that he was different from current Democrats but I can't think of anything he would do different than the Democrats in power now. They were big fans of Mr. Hollings.
It is incredible to me that people are asserting that it would be good to have a former segregationist as one of the faces of SC in 2022 rather than somebody like Tim Scott. This columnist couldn't even wait until black history month was over to make that case. This state having a black Senator is the thing that is special, not Mr. Hollings.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 03-02-2022 at 04:21 PM..
I think most people in 2022 prefer never. What is the worst thing that could happen if we don't have a former segregationist in office. Why would we ask minorities to take that risk. The optics don't look good as well. It seems like if you respect minorities, you wouldn't promote a former segregationist when there are other options. The Democratic party probably doesn't lose another election if they nominated a black person every time. It is surprising people would want to run a old white guy with baggage instead.
It seems like you are indirectly admitting that you don't think your team have a lot of young talent on the bench if you are nostalgic about a former segregationist.
It is kind of funny the relative positions that we have on Mr. Hollings given our different philosophies, the accusations and the big switch theory. Going with that theory and the accusations, I should be the one nostalgic for a politician who was a segregationist.
Your gushing about Strom Thurmond threw me for a loop because he's the foundation of the big switch theory. Without Strom, the theory rests solely on an obscure congressman switching,maybe Jesse Helms, and Nixon opposing forced busing (along with Mr. B, and the majority of black people according to polling at the time). Strom said some psychopathic stuff.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 03-02-2022 at 08:20 PM..
I have no opinion on Fritz Hollins but that video of JFK's speech in Columbia brings back memories as I was a high school student then and was one of the "Kennedy Girls" who lined the steps, forming an aisle for JFK to walk through.
So I was in that crowd behind Kennedy wearing a white hat with Kennedy band, my white blouse, and navy skirt. And 4 inch high heels as that's what women wore in those days.
So happy that this video was mentioned and I looked it up!
[A Bubba refers to other people as Bubba. I'm not a student in your class. What you say to your students is not related to Hollings. I'm sure you say that to students who express a disagreement with you. You seem to have a disciplinarian personality which isn't good for a teacher.
You assert the thread is derailed if somebody disagrees with his political assertion we need men like Fritz hollings in government and that Hollings was special. A special person would speak out against segregation when there was still popular support for it. The only reason you know his name is he won elections by appealing to segregationists.
You have made off topic insults calling me autistic and about Shakespeare.
I made the comment about AOC after he tried to associate vocational schools with Fritz Hollings exclusively. My point is vocational students probably lean to the right.
Lol Nope! Wrong, wrong. What a dense 1st paragraph. Nothing sticks but if you feel better...
You have trouble sticking to a point and topic, which is why every thread devolves into a mishmash of loosely connected babble.
I would add to this topic but I have little knowledge on Fritz Hollings. I started to read this thread with interest until you started talking about the political leanings of welders, AOC and whatever other drivel you started farting about.
If I were to add anything to this, Fritz reminds me a bit like a less racially motivated George Wallace. Of course George Wallace changed his "ways" and I think it's worth noting. Of course people that change their views should be accepted; afterall we're not born racist. It's a mindset. If Hollings mindset changed his policy as a politician, this is even more admirable.
He didn't speak out against segregation. He told segregation supporters to accept the loss once it was struck down in the courts.
It was a politically motivated change in position no doubt, but he essentially told SC to "stand down" and that's what happened.
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Abraham Lincoln didn't wait for a court to strike down slavery to say something about it.
Slavery couldn't be struck down via a court decision because it was protected by the Constitution and thus required a constitutional amendment to be completely abolished as an institution throughout the entire country. Although Lincoln voiced his disagreement with slavery, he didn't actually move to dismantle slavery until he issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 which was a wartime tactic to weaken the Confederacy and give the Union a winning advantage.
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Hollings didn't want the federal government to move into the south like it did after the Civil War.
This is true; he didn't want SC to look like AL and AR and desired to avoid the bad press such resistance would generate.
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I challenge you to provide a quote prior to the court decision in which Hollings speaks out against segregation.
I never claimed Hollings voiced opposition to segregation prior to the court injunction that paved the way for Harvey Gantt to attend Clemson as its first Black student.
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Last week you said it was racist to have a John C Calhoun statue in the public square. Hollings never spoke out against the Calhoun statue in Charleston or elsewhere in SC. We know he was a big fan of Calhoun.
I didn't say anything about the Calhoun statue last week. And how do you know Hollings was a "big fan" of Calhoun?
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You and others are presenting the notion that without Hollings there would be no vocational colleges in SC. That is implausible. Supporting trade colleges doesn't make him 'special'. I don't think was any opposition to trade colleges in this state.
I'm simply presenting historical facts and said nothing about Hollings being "special" for doing what he did, but his decision was certainly consequential for SC economically.
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