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To make a long story short, I'm a 40 year old single mom with an 8 year old son. We currently live in Corpus Christi, TX (love the ocean but not the vibe here). Due to poor health and desire for family, we are considering a move to Spokane OR surrounding area nearby).
We moved from England after living there for many years (I lived there 13 years) so would say we are well-travelled and open-minded. One of my favorite place is Seattle. I LOVED the vibe of Seattle when I was there 15 years ago and Austin was pretty (however, not the weather!). Seattle is too far away though so trying to figure out if Spokane will be a "manageable' fit for us.
What concerns me is the "white trash" or "hick" and "conservative" comments about Spokane. I am fairly liberal ( and I believe "to each their own" and so truly don't want to be surrounded by people with closed/rigid views or individuals who feel they should impose their views onto me. I'm sure these comments from others are just a generalization but I fear it must be the overriding vibe of the area or it would not be mentioned continuously.
I have (a lot of) family in Spokane (who I haven't seen in 20 years) and am considering moving there however, I want to know we will like the area. Here are some of my questions:
1. is there a healthy lifestyle vibe (i.e. is there a Wholefoods etc - silly question I know but it gives me an overall feeling of what the people in an area find important. One reason I want to leave this area now!!!!)
2. Why do (some) people say it is "hick" or "white-trash" - in what way exactly?
3. What is there to do for outdoors types?
4. What types of entertainment do the city offer for the public? i.e. concerts etc?
5. How far is it to the ocean?
6. What is the spiritual climate like? I don't mean "organized religion" - I mean spiritual?
7. Are there any public schools that cater to arts for children (elementary age)
8. What are jobs like for alternative health (thinking of going into this field possibly)?
9. What is the best way for me find out more apart from this forum and website?
I am drawn to the area due to family but want to know more before we take the leap.
Thanking you in advance for anything you can tell me. obviously the more facts you can give rather than just opinion (when possible) is best to help me make an informed decision. Thank you!!!
I travel back and forth between Spokane and Seattle a lot (have lived in Spokane for a dozen years).
"White trash" - incomes in Spokane are very low - the average household income is about 1/2 that of Bellevue, WA for example. With poverty comes a general unkempt appearance since appearance is not a priority in such situations. with poverty there is also a prevalence of obesity - shop WinCo or WalMart and you'll quickly see what we mean by the problem of obesity. I don't see this in the areas I visit in King County - perhaps just coincidence, who knows.
Spokane, conservative? Eastern WA has a reputation for conservative politics but the reality is quite different. First off, 37.7% of all jobs in Spokane are government, health care or education jobs, and the majority of health care payments are made by the government (employees) or the government (Medicare, Medicaid and other government programs). Source for that figure is the monthly employment report of the Washington Employment Security Department. Throw pseudo government water districts, fire districts, etc, and we are likely at over 40% of jobs are connected to the government. Oddly enough, the conservatism is buried under a mountain of government socialism.
Housing prices are low in Spokane because wages are low. Home prices correlate with wages.
Traffic is low because the percent of the population working is low - about 46% of all adults are working compared to 60% in Seattle.
Air passenger traffic at Spokane International Airport is at the same level it first reached in 1995. In other words, 15 years later, air traffic through SIA (also known as Geiger Field - GEG) is flat for 15 years (Source is SIA's own web site passenger data.) Boise and Seattle, meanwhile, have seen sharp increases in passengers over that period.
As of July 2010, there are only about 11,000 more jobs in Spokane County than there were in 1999. Hardly a booming economic metropolis.
If you work in government, health care or education - you'll find Spokane is fine. If you work in any other field, you'll find that jobs are scarce and low paid - mostly low to moderate skilled service jobs and moderate skilled manufacturing. Many of the schools are quite decent to very good. Traffic is low. Smog is nearly non-existent. Winters are very cold. Summers are warm to hot and dry. Relatively easy access to outdoor recreation on uncrowded roads. You'll find lines in retail checkouts are much shorter than in the big cities. There are several fun community events in the spring, like the Bloomsday Run and the Lilac Festival and Armed Forces Day Parade or Hoopfest - where downtown streets are closed for a weekend of basketball on courts set up all over downtown involving about 7,000 teams.
Property crime (theft, vandalism, car break ins) is quite a problem. Per Trulia,com, much higher than the rest of the state. We've personally been victims of crime in the area many times - and the general policy of the police and sheriff is that they do not investigate any property crimes or car break ins or thefts from moving vehicles.
As of July 2010, the area is blanketed with empty retail and manufacturing buildings. All of the major "brand name" companies have left the area - for example, Agilent (closing Oct 2010), General Dynamics (closed 2009), and even Telect, which once had about 2000 employees is now down to perhaps one hundred or so. Kaiser Aluminum closed the Mead smelter operations plant, losing around 2000 high paid steel worker jobs. There are many places where every building has "space available" or is "for sale"; there are several places where there is an entire block of vacant buildings.
The area's much vaunted (a decade ago) "going to be a high tech center" is in shambles; high tech doesn't even get mentioned on the local plans anymore. Nearly all of the high tech manufacturers left for cheaper overseas locations and laid off their design engineering teams too. All of the grad programs in engineering at local universities were shut down. And even the state run SIRTI tech development agency in Spokane is now working on incubating tech companies in Seattle. The area's latest pipe dream is that the area is going to have a future bioscience/biotech cluster and - drum roll - the government will put in a medical school here. Note the pattern to rely on even more taxpayer money to keep the local economy afloat in the future.
What you have then is government, health care and education jobs - and low paying jobs outside that area.
If you are in government, health care or education - or retired - Spokane would be swell. If not, I'd look elsewhere. The economy here is surprisingly weak - and local politicians and cheerleaders engage in a game of smiling faces, extending the truth and telling us how the future will be wonderful, even though the area's private sector has been in decline for 11 years. Perhaps this is due to a dysfunctional local government? I dunno.
Whenever you hear disparaging remarks about Spokane from Seattleites, you should know that two years ago Seattle was named The Most Snobbish City in a national study.
I was raised in Spokane and lived in Seattle. The study is spot-on. Seattleites perceive their city as the finest spot in the entire Cosmos, let alone Planet Earth.
Myself, I find the weather dismal. While the summers are warm or hot, and generally dry, about early October the drizzly rains hit. This continues through May: every day is overcast, drizzle, rain, wind and humidity.
Some people enjoy that sort of thing. I don't.
Seattle traffic is heavy and comes to a standstill every day. In 1980 it took me 30 minutes to reach downtown from SeaTac on a work day. Today, that same route would take me 90 minutes or two hours, so friends who stayed tell me.
And if it snows, it would take hours or days.
Seattle doesn't get snow often. Seattleites don't know how to drive in it. If an inch or two falls and sticks, they close the schools.
Spokane, on the other hand, gets four definite seasons and up to 12 or 14 inches of snow. Spokanites know how to drive in snow and on ice.
Seattleites are fond of snorting at Spokane and remarking about eastern Washington: "There's nothing over there but desert!"
Well, not quite true. Northern Washington has a lot of pine forests, but they're not lush like on the coast.
That "desert" also produces massive amounts of fruit, vegetables and grain. In the 1980s when I lived in Spokane, eastern Washington was the nation's third-largest producer of wheat, exceeded only by Kansas and Iowa.
The fruits and vegetables are raised by irrigation, courtesy of the dams along the Columbia River. These same dams create inexpensive electricity and control floods that used to ravage major cities such as Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington each year.
Yes, the salmon were affected by the dams -- and the Japanese, Indian tribes, sport anglers, developers and a host of others. Anyone who blames the dams, and those alone, for the reduced numbers of salmon is selectively pointing a finger.
Spokane lacks saltwater, of course, but it has 74 lakes in a 50 mile radius. If you enjoy fishing or boating, Spokane is great.
The economy has always been weak, and good jobs hard to find, in Spokane. But if you have a good job assured, you'll find housing relatively inexpensive.
You will also find that many of the people are friendly. You may hear snideness against Californians (who have largely ruined the Pacific Northwest, in my estimation).
Spokanites expect you to work for a living, even if it's a lower level job, and to pay your own way.
Seattleites feel that food, shelter, an education and other benefits should be readily provided to anyone who wants it, whether they make an honest effort to help themselves.
The above are, admittedly, generalities but the difference between the beliefs of residents in both ciies is apparent.
I much prefer Spokane to Seattle. It's not as pretentious. My lifestyle embraces the outdoors and I'm not to impress anyone. I do not feel the need to remind folks that they're privileged to set foot in the garden spot of the Cosmos, and they'd better appreciate that fact. Loudly and often.
A good test of the snobbery in Seattle is to mention that you're from Spokane. That's all, just say, "I'm from Spokane."
A typical reaction will be, "ewwwwwwww!" or "I'm sorry" or some other unthinking, discourteous, rude, snobbish remark.
If you're in Spokane and mention, "I'm from Seattle" you'll get, "That's nice," or "That's a nice city" as a response.
No snobbery, no pretentions.
1. is there a healthy lifestyle vibe (i.e. is there a Wholefoods etc - silly question I know but it gives me an overall feeling of what the people in an area find important. One reason I want to leave this area now!!!!)
2. Why do (some) people say it is "hick" or "white-trash" - in what way exactly?
3. What is there to do for outdoors types?
4. What types of entertainment do the city offer for the public? i.e. concerts etc?
5. How far is it to the ocean?
6. What is the spiritual climate like? I don't mean "organized religion" - I mean spiritual?
7. Are there any public schools that cater to arts for children (elementary age)
8. What are jobs like for alternative health (thinking of going into this field possibly)?
9. What is the best way for me find out more apart from this forum and website?
There is already a lot to chew on in the responses given so I will just try and answer your questions.
1. There is not currently a Whole Foods. There are two local alternatives, Huckleberries Natural Markets and the Main Market Co-op. Both provide most of what you could find at a Whole Foods (though with smaller selections) but the benefit is that they are locally owned and operated. Spokane gets a whole foods rumor every 6 months or so.
2. I think the hick comments stem in part from the lower income levels in Spokane compared to larger cities and from some of the rural influence surrounding Spokane. Spokane is the only city of size within a fairly large geographical area so just as the city influences the rural areas, the rural areas influence the city. I'm not equating rural with hick but that is a common perception.
3. Spokane is great for outdoor activities. There is an abundance of hiking/camping/skiing/water sports/rafting/etc. You've got Canada, northern Idaho and western Montana all as your backyard which is some of the most beautiful outdoor country in North America.
4. Spokane has a symphony, Broadway shows, touring concerts, a literature festival, etc. There are large community events like Bloomsday, Hoopfest, Symphony in the park, etc. I would read through the Inlander to get a sense of what events are taking place. Granted, Spokane is a smaller market so you will have less overall than a place like Seattle or Austin but it is big enough to get some share of entertainment options.
5. You can make it to Seattle in 4 hours driving or 1 hour flying. If that doesn't count, you have to add on a bit more to get to the actual ocean.
6. For spiritual community, I think there is some representation for the type I think you're describing. There is an annual Holistic Fair and Mind, Body, Spirit Expo that would be good places to start your inquiry.
7. I could be wrong but don't think there are any arts focused schools in the Spokane area. That said, public schools are generally very good.
8. I'd refer you to number 6. If you can get information on past or upcoming events, it would be a good place to start looking at employment in the fields you mention.
9. Check the Inlander and other local blogs. Read this site with a critical eye. Read the Spokesman Review online.
In general, Spokane is less liberal than Seattle and I would call it an evenly balanced place. There is a general western to each there own feeling. You tend to see an electoral split between the city proper and the outlying areas. The city and county vote for both Ds and Rs but except for long running incumbents or other strange reasons, the spread is typically no more than 5 percentage points one way or another.
To make a long story short, I'm a 40 year old single mom with an 8 year old son. We currently live in Corpus Christi, TX (love the ocean but not the vibe here). Due to poor health and desire for family, we are considering a move to Spokane OR surrounding area nearby).
We moved from England after living there for many years (I lived there 13 years) so would say we are well-travelled and open-minded. One of my favorite place is Seattle. I LOVED the vibe of Seattle when I was there 15 years ago and Austin was pretty (however, not the weather!). Seattle is too far away though so trying to figure out if Spokane will be a "manageable' fit for us.
What concerns me is the "white trash" or "hick" and "conservative" comments about Spokane. I am fairly liberal ( and I believe "to each their own" and so truly don't want to be surrounded by people with closed/rigid views or individuals who feel they should impose their views onto me. I'm sure these comments from others are just a generalization but I fear it must be the overriding vibe of the area or it would not be mentioned continuously.
I have (a lot of) family in Spokane (who I haven't seen in 20 years) and am considering moving there however, I want to know we will like the area. Here are some of my questions:
1. is there a healthy lifestyle vibe (i.e. is there a Wholefoods etc - silly question I know but it gives me an overall feeling of what the people in an area find important. One reason I want to leave this area now!!!!)
2. Why do (some) people say it is "hick" or "white-trash" - in what way exactly?
3. What is there to do for outdoors types?
4. What types of entertainment do the city offer for the public? i.e. concerts etc?
5. How far is it to the ocean?
6. What is the spiritual climate like? I don't mean "organized religion" - I mean spiritual?
7. Are there any public schools that cater to arts for children (elementary age)
8. What are jobs like for alternative health (thinking of going into this field possibly)?
9. What is the best way for me find out more apart from this forum and website?
I am drawn to the area due to family but want to know more before we take the leap.
Thanking you in advance for anything you can tell me. obviously the more facts you can give rather than just opinion (when possible) is best to help me make an informed decision. Thank you!!!
Let me make it easier without overwhelming you with info as some are here. Based on where you have lived and what type of lifestyle you enjoy, no, you will not like Spokane. Here are the general reasons why:
It's inland. It's about 95% white, and yes, that manifiests itself in the social views. Impossible not too. It's politically conservative. It's a very slow town with not a lot going on at night. Very, Very few street festivals and events. Maybe 1 or two of those are held the entire year.
It's a great place for someone that has a job offer and can buy a georgeous house on the South Hill, which are cheap in comparison to most of the U.S, and wants to raise a family in a family oriented area close to nature. It doesn't sound like that fits the bill of what you are looking for though.
If you liked Seattle, you may not like Spokane. They are only 250 mi apart but a world away socially, climate wise, politically, etc.
The combination of 95% white with low income levels = "hick". My best friend attended Gonzaga Prep, a highschool in the area, and at that time the football team had 2 black players, both of whom were considered the best athletes in the school. I'll let you guess why. If that's not backwards "hick" thinking I don't know what is.
1. is there a healthy lifestyle vibe (i.e. is there a Wholefoods etc - silly question I know but it gives me an overall feeling of what the people in an area find important. One reason I want to leave this area now!!!!)
Not really. No.
2. Why do (some) people say it is "hick" or "white-trash" - in what way exactly?
Low income, largely mono-cultured, predominately Caucasian populace
It's a very slow town with not a lot going on at night. Very, Very few street festivals and events. Maybe 1 or two of those are held the entire year.
It is certainly true that if someone likes Seattle they won't necessarily like Spokane. If you need a city the size of Seattle and a political demographic like Seattle then Spokane probably won't work. That said, there are many people who like both places.
Spokane is conservative politically compared to Seattle but is middle of the road politically from a national perspective. Democrats win Spokane in elections from local races to presidential races. In the most recent city council race two candidates who are essentially green candidates won seats.
As to the festivals, there are less than Seattle but given the population difference, Spokane is not too bad. A quick summary:
First Night: new year's eve with tens of thousands downtown;
Bloomsday: 40-50k road race;
Hoopfest: largest 3 on 3 basketball tournament in the world;
Pig out in the Park: Spokane's 'bite out' equivalent;
Lilac Festival and Parade;
Get Lit: Literature festival;
Pow Wow: Native American festival in Riverfront Park;
Fourth of July;
Unity in the Community;
Spokane International Film Festival;
South Perry Street Fair;
Valleyfest;
Royal Fireworks Festival;
Garland Street Fair, etc.
Obviously not an exhaustive listing but suffice to say that Spokane has more than 1 or two festivals a year.
Property crime (theft, vandalism, car break ins) is quite a problem. Per Trulia,com, much higher than the rest of the state. We've personally been victims of crime in the area many times - and the general policy of the police and sheriff is that they do not investigate any property crimes or car break ins or thefts from moving vehicles.
despo has some sour grapes or something because spokane has a similar crime rate to seattle. Singling out Spokane as an epicenter of crime is a flat out lie, and despo knows it.
It is certainly true that if someone likes Seattle they won't necessarily like Spokane. If you need a city the size of Seattle and a political demographic like Seattle then Spokane probably won't work. That said, there are many people who like both places.
Spokane is conservative politically compared to Seattle but is middle of the road politically from a national perspective. Democrats win Spokane in elections from local races to presidential races. In the most recent city council race two candidates who are essentially green candidates won seats.
As to the festivals, there are less than Seattle but given the population difference, Spokane is not too bad. A quick summary:
First Night: new year's eve with tens of thousands downtown;
Bloomsday: 40-50k road race;
Hoopfest: largest 3 on 3 basketball tournament in the world;
Pig out in the Park: Spokane's 'bite out' equivalent;
Lilac Festival and Parade;
Get Lit: Literature festival;
Pow Wow: Native American festival in Riverfront Park;
Fourth of July;
Unity in the Community;
Spokane International Film Festival;
South Perry Street Fair;
Valleyfest;
Royal Fireworks Festival;
Garland Street Fair, etc.
Obviously not an exhaustive listing but suffice to say that Spokane has more than 1 or two festivals a year.
Yes, you are right, it has its' place. I know people I went to highschool with that are still living there 16 years after graduating and have no plans of leaving. I think that's tragic, but everyone has their own tastes in life. I had fun times there too, but as you say, it's all relative to what you are used to and expecting.
In terms of someone that likes Seattle, likes the water and has lived in England as the OP stated, I don't think she'll like Spokane.
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