University City or Tower Grove Heights...? (St. Louis, Wellston: sale, apartment, rent)

[inahandbasket]

So we're getting closer to the time when we can really start narrowing down the area of STL where my partner and I will move. The two areas are University City (West Portland Place or University Heights areas, ideally) or Tower Grove Heights.

The earliest we could move would be the summer of 2011, after our youngest graduates from high school. We currently live in West County because of the schools. We probably will move later in 2011 or 2012 because we need time to get our youngest settled at college and get our house ready to sell.

I'm going over the pros/cons of UCity and TGH:

Pros of UCity:
-Gorgeous housing stock
-Being w/in walking distance of Wash U, Forest Park and the Loop
-Centrally located, about equally distanced from where my partner and I both work.
-Liberal/progressive population/gay welcoming community
-Near the MetroLink
-Close to the airport
-Less property crime than TGH

Cons of UCity:
-Taxes!!! Higher than just about any other area of STL... We'd be paying about 2/3rd's more in taxes every year forever for a $300,000 - 350,000 house than in TGH.
-$300 - 350K doesn't go as far in UCity as it does in TGH

Pros of TGH:
-Gorgeous housing stock
-Liberal/progressive population/gay welcoming community
-Walking distance to S. Grand, Tower Grove Park and the Botanical Garden
-Very close to my partner's employer (currently her commute to N. Grand is 45 minutes in the a.m. and sometimes an hour or more in the p.m.)
-We could get a lot more house for $300 - 350k than UCity
-Lower property taxes

Cons of TGH:
-Property crime and possibility of violent crime. This is more of an issue for my partner than me. I lived in (and LOVED) the Shaw neighborhood from 1992 -95. Shaw was pretty sketchy then. I would hear gunshots occasionally. I was aware of my surroundings. Nothing bad ever happened to me or my apartment or car. My partner grew up in a bad neighborhood in Louisville, KY. I think she is still working out separating the idea of an urban middle class neighborhood (like TGH) vs. a BAD, underclass area.
We never think twice about taking a walk later on in the evening (in the spring/summer) out here in West County. I would not take a walk at night in TGH.

There are two family rehabs coming on the market, very affordable in TGH. One of our ideas has been to buy a two family property and have it professionally rehabbed/converted to a one family if we were to buy in the city. We are thinking that right now, the interest rates are about as low as they're ever going to be and WILL be rising in the near future.

We won't be able to do much rehabbing until we sell our house (the earliest is next spring). Would it be OK to hang on to the property (possibly rent out part of it if it's habitable) until we can put the profit of the sale of our current house?

Any ideas you all have regarding UCity and TGH pro/con?
Any feedback about hanging on to a property we can get a lower interest rate now as opposed to 1-2 years from now?

inahandbasket

[ktCakes]

Well, you know which one I would prefer! LOL! I walk my dog in the evenings 8-9p and never have any concerns.

All of my friends who have converted 2 families rented out the top first. Some thought it was a PIA to get good tenants some didn't have problems.

Not much help, am i?

[BoomBoxing]

Don't forget that TGH is near the metrolink too (Grand station). I think the crime rates are pretty comparable...I mean U.City is right next door to north city and all.

To ease your partnets concern about crime, I would recommend attending a TGH/TGS neighborhood meeting and talk with a lot of the people. They will be more than happy to give you an honest assessment of the neighborhood both good and bad.

[moorlander]

Can't go wrong in either location.

[aaronstlcards]

In all seriousness, U-City is walking distance from some of the worst areas of St. Louis. I have a friend who lives practically on the border of St. Louis city and Wellston, and have walked from her house to the nearby Delmar Loop before. The areas in between are depressing to say the least. Honestly, if you're gonna live in U-City, i'd say south of Delmar would be good.

[Marksman84]

Let's analyze what what really matters:

Both areas have kick-@ss bars, many of which are smoke-free!

In ten years of running at Tower Grove Park, we saw one incident with the police - a smash-and-grab in 2006. It turns out that the young lady left her purse in plain sight on the front seat of her car. Not a good idea anywhere in the world.

[stlcitygirl]

My vote is for Tower Grove Park, it really just has so much to offer. You have South Grand, Botanical Gardens, Morganford, Tower Grove Park and a short commute. I would say that most of my friends live around Tower Grove in some capacity (TG, TGE, Shaw, Southwest Gardens) Not one has had any trouble with crime. Just don't leave anything in your car and get an alarm system.

[inahandbasket]

Originally Posted by ktCakes

Well, you know which one I would prefer! LOL! I walk my dog in the evenings 8-9p and never have any concerns.

All of my friends who have converted 2 families rented out the top first. Some thought it was a PIA to get good tenants some didn't have problems.

Not much help, am i?

That's a good idea about the renting. And it's good to know Shaw is safe to walk around at that time of night now. It sure wasn't in 1992-5.

I was showing some out of town friends the Tower Grove Heights neighborhood today and commented: "When I'm walking around TGH I think to myself, 'Oh, I reallyreallyreally want to live here!!' and when I walk around UCity I think, 'Oh, I reallyreallyreally want to live here!!'"
I guess it's a nice conundrum to be in....

inahandbasket

[1greatcity]

Both areas are great, but my vote goes to TGH. From what you've said, I think you and your partner would be happier there. The Tower Grove Park area is awesome. I've actually lived in all the neighborhoods surrounding the park: Southwest Garden, Tower Grove East, Shaw, Grand Oak Hill, near Morganford in TGS, and Northampton. I've been living in the area for over 25 years. The area just has so many selling points (you listed some of them.) Come see for yourself!

[BubbyBobble]

U. City. I dunno, it's really hard. You're close to clayton, brentwood and south county from u.city. But you have so many restraunts near Tower Grove. Flip a coin.