A Discussion about the former OnTrack Passenger Rail System (New York: 2014, transfer)
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How has the feedback been from people that may have come across your information or that you have shared this information with?
I have spoken with officials from SU, City Hall, The Post-Standard, developers with prominent projects downtown, certified planners, officials from Centro, etc.
The response has been mixed depending on who I have talked to. Every person has agreed that the City of Syracuse is moving towards a new direction where passenger rail (or some new type of mass transit) would be much more viable than it was a decade ago...
but my experience in talking to these people is their strong hesitation towards saying Syracuse is "ready now" for OnTrack to make a comeback, and I am constantly asked whether or not people in Syracuse really be willing to leave their cars and ride the train into the Urban Center?
I understand these concerns, and perhaps more progress needs to be made in Syracuse if OnTrack were to be successful, but I firmly believe that if the city could strategize its development plan then mass transit along these rails could work. T.O.D. (transit-oriented development) would need to become a major part of this. Purposely locating condos and apartments near and adjacent to the rail (similar to what we are seeing in Denver, Salt Lake & Portland)
Add in the I-81 viaduct that will forever change Syracuse (regardless of which solution is selected) starting in 2017, this will greatly impact the daily commute for thousands of people for several years, so what if passenger rail could provide a new option for commuting into Syracuse without the need for parking. Traffic congestion will likely increase when 81 shuts down, so why not use OnTrack to mitigate some of that congestion?
Then you think about upcoming events such as the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament Regional in the Carrier Dome in 2015, and the U.S. Bowling Congress Championship in 2018 that will bring 80,000 bowlers & families to Syracuse over a 5-month span --- and you can really make the debate for a new transit rail system that could be successful sooner rather than later.
I think a Diesel Light Rail system would really benefit cities like Syracuse and Rochester.... There cheap to build and operate , you can run them down existing tracks or city streets...the only really limitation is long tunnels. In the Buffalo region , the diesel Light rail can act as a regional rail system connecting the outer towns to the Job hubs.
Thank you for posting this information. When I was still researching case studies for my report, I came across somethings related to the Riverline System but for some reason I never looked into it. I agree 100% that this would be the type of structure that cold work in Syracuse. We already have existing railroad lines and if OnTrack were to ever come back to life, any new additional lines would have to work universally with the old rail. That's why I think the Riverline is a great model. I think for a city like Syracuse, Diesel light rail could work extrmely well, as long as it could also connect to much older rail lines that were laid 100 ago...
I have a couple questions since you seem to be extremely knowledgeable of this system: What were the final costs to construct this system? Was the majority of the line from Trenton to Camden already existing rail, or did a large potion of the line have to be built from scratch, any information would be great on this issue.
Too bad this is so old, I can lay it right out for you.
Ontrack was a scam, pure and simple, by the old lawyer who owned a frieght railroad that got shafted out of buying the then bankrupt Delaware & Hudson railroad after being designated operator for several years. Despite having a larger cash offer, the court gave the line to CP Rail, feeling they had more resources to invest to fix that line's problems.
At the time, this guy's railroad was dependent on the D&H's rights to use a line between Binghamton and Buffalo for several trains, connections from CSX and NS both. Angry, he decided to take his toys and go home - because of other changes, the CSX trains were using a different railroad (Conrail) to reach Buffalo, so it was relatively simple for them to continue via Conrail to Syracuse. His railroad owned branches going north from Binghamton, one to Syracuse, one to Utica, to make the connection possible.
But there was a problem - when Conrail, sold to this guy's railroad, the Susquehanna, the branch lines north from Binghamton, they kept the portion from Jamesville to Solvay, as at the time it still had some large customers (Allied Chemical and the Jamesville Quarry). Even though by 1992 it saw only one move once a month, they would not sell. It was in bad shape and needed track work and some clearance work to handle the connecting trains.
So this lawyer invented Ontrack as a means to get the county to take the line by eminent domain, to force Conrail to give it up, so he could run his frieght trains via Syracuse and then to Buffalo, instead of via the former Delaware and Hudson rights to the line from Binghamton through Elmira, Corning and to Buffalo.
To make it look good they ran excusrions and played trains for several years, but eventually it boiled down to just fulfilling the agreement with the county with one self-powered car that ran back and forth usually empty on a purposely useless schedule that saw it not running in winter months when people would most likely ride, and not running late when people would most likely ride. It could have been a great way for, say, kids at SU to get to the bars downtown, but it didn't run then. It could have been a great way for those same kids to get to Carousel Mall to shop for Christmas, but again it did not run then. Eventually the lawyer died, the ownership of the railroad changed, and the managers simply stopped running it. It served it's purpose, it got them a frieght connection in Syracuse which they still use to this day. All it cost them was some additional fuel and maintenance costs on some well-used Rail Diesel Cars.
Even the staff was volunteer based, coordinated with the local NRHS chapter, employee hours there gave the group credits against having excursion trains run elsewhere on the line, or use of excursion cars for other trips.
The grand plans even included going to the new Regional Transportation Center station off Park Street and a platform was built that was never used, to serve the baseball stadium. This is because they could not afford the insurance to enter the main tracks to cross Park Street. The bridge there is only two tracks wide, where many others on the then-Conrail line were once four tracks. A bridge was bought to add on next to the existing one, but work was stopped because of fears it would damage the existing bridge, which is on a major busy frieght line and also used by Amtrak. (The insurance issue is also why trains never went to the State Fair, even though a line runs right outside the front and the rear of the grounds, making it seem like a logical place to go at least during the Fair itself).
So technically Ontrack was also never completed, it never reached the last two places it was intended to go. But then it never had to, because it was a scam, and so long as the freight trains ran, it didn't matter.
Of course, in the long run even the scammer got bitten on his backside - Conrail was bought out and split up between Norfolk Southern and CSX a few years later. Neither of these roads needed the NYS&W to handle it's trains into the New York City market any longer - they had their own routes. To pacify the Susquehanna, one train was assigned to the route for a couple of years, but now even that is gone, and it only serves as a detour in emergencies outside of it's one through train and one train servicing local industries.
But the two big roads also hedged their bets - it's not known for certain because it's a private deal, but it's thought that the two large roads loaned the lawyer the funds to buy out the road's stock, he getting 80%, the other two each 10%. He died, and it's further theorized that now the two large roads share control of the Susquehanna, with the 80% portion reverting to them in lieu of the estate repaying the loans.
Oh, and the former D&H? Still running under CP and with some agreements with NS about as strong as it was then, plus most of the line rebuilt and simplified for the amount of traffic using it.
Thank you for posting this information. When I was still researching case studies for my report, I came across somethings related to the Riverline System but for some reason I never looked into it. I agree 100% that this would be the type of structure that cold work in Syracuse. We already have existing railroad lines and if OnTrack were to ever come back to life, any new additional lines would have to work universally with the old rail. That's why I think the Riverline is a great model. I think for a city like Syracuse, Diesel light rail could work extremely well, as long as it could also connect to much older rail lines that were laid 100 ago...
I have a couple questions since you seem to be extremely knowledgeable of this system: What were the final costs to construct this system? Was the majority of the line from Trenton to Camden already existing rail, or did a large potion of the line have to be built from scratch, any information would be great on this issue.
Thanks again for your post.
The Costs came to 1.2 Billion $ , most of the line was abandoned or lightly used meaning 1 or 2 trains a day. The Line was extensively rebuilt , New Concrete ties , most of the line was double tracked except in a few areas near the Delaware and through Town centers. A few Bridges had to be completely rebuilt , they also built 2 yards for the Line. They bought 20 DMU trains from Germany , which have a top speed of 80mph. The line is about 34 miles long , only 7 miles are Urban , the rest is Suburban. There are 5 miles of rural trackside , so it services a slice of everyone in South Jersey. The line will be extended 18 miles South to Glassboro by 2019 , or futher to Millville for about 900-1.1 billion. It would require extensive rebuilding for higher speeds and double tracking. Eventually the hope is to have a network in South Jersey Trolley-Train routes connecting the small and large towns with the large cities and job hubs.
For what it's worth, there are a few plausible rumors floating around that Ontrack may come back in a new form in the future, there is some need for it, although I see no real need for a daily shuttle train. Heck, I like trains and I never rode it the whole time it was in existance.
WSTM-TV investigative reporter Jim Kenyon recently interviewed the President of CENTRO. It's unlikely OnTrack will ever return especially with the sale of the rusted steel that was to be used for the bridge.
The old OnTrack shouldn't ever return in its old state. It was a project largely seeking a purpose and failing to hit either end of the need chain.
To wit: if you want to position a rail system as a commuter option, it needs to do at least one of two things really well - have parking available at an endpoint (like park and ride for CENTRO), or go to where a reasonably high density of people live.
OnTrack only had one stop that had reasonable amounts parking available (Carousel), and sort of but not anymore Armory Square. And the only station that was anywhere near a reasonable density of potential users was in a forgettable location below the Carrier Dome, and in an area that was better served and for less money by CENTRO buses.
If we were to contemplate revitalizing rail-based transit here, we'd be better off digging up the old trolley tracks (in many places still paved over in the city) and revitalizing that, or starting over. The track coverage of the OnTrack system was too limited to be of much potential use as a commuter rail - the only reasonable way to make a rail-based system viable here. Failing to get connected to the RTC was the first blunder - but there weren't even plans to do with it what would've helped moreso, which was a connection to the airport.
In Seattle they have double buses that run on deisel in some areas, connect to overhead electrjc and on rails in some areas.
With the sprawl in Syracuse that type of system would prolly work best.
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