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I keep hearing references to how unions protect bad teachers but this is not somthing I see with any regularity. In my own schooling, I had two bad teachers. I may have had some who were ineffective, as a student I wouldn't have known, but only two I'd say were bad which leaves me asking just how big a problem unions protecting bad teachers is.
If you teach, please answer the poll. I'm just curious if this is any kind of real problem or just another scape goat to take our attention off of the real problems.
Seriously, given the work load and stress of this job, I can't see why someone who is a bad teacher would stay in the profession. There are much easier and less stressful ways to make a living.
The really one bad teacher I had was an authoratarian. She expected her students (4th and 5th) grades to toe the line and the line was placed to insure, constant, infractions. I'm convinced she was into control and the only people she could control were children so she was teacher. The other was a guy who was just doing time until retirement. He wanted to retire but couldn't so he didn't teach. I had him for health in high school. He did bizzare things because he knew he could get away with them. 20/20 hind sight, I'm thinking he was trying to prove that the administration would not do anything no matter how strange his behavior. As far as I know, they didn't.
So, out of 41-48 teachers (can't remember if I had a 6 or 7 period day in middle/high school), I've seen two that should have been fired, IMO. While that's not good, I have to wonder how much of what plagues education today can really be blamed on two teachers in the course of a 13 year education being bad.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-13-2010 at 03:53 AM..
That's a hard one to answer so I checked off one. The reason it's hard is b/c I don't really know anyone who's totally bad--just teachers who do poorly in the classroom but have other good qualities that the kids may need. The worst one I know never prepares lesson plans and she's not good at winging it, picks on some kids while making favorites out of others, and is totally ditzy. She looks good to admin though b/c she's very thorough with her paperwork, which is all important in special ed. Also, she has a real rapport with some of the kids, which is also important in sped.
I sit in on an art class every day where the man has no control of the classroom and no respect from the students. He's a good art teacher though, except that I wish he would at least move on, b/c the good students are bored while he gives extra time to the students who aren't working anyway.
Then there is the math teacher who is totally clueless about what her students can do--it drove me crazy as her TA, b/c I could see that they needed to go back and re-do certain subjects, but we'd just move on from one concept they didn't understand to another one that they totally didn't get. However, she is the warmest hearted woman I've ever met and the kids call her Mom, and go to her when they're hurting, and they hurt a lot. She's also the one who coaxed a student up to the office who had just attacked me with a knife, and I don't think anyone else could have or would have done that.
Like you I had 2 really bad teachers growing up and one of them was kindergarten. I remember being so discouraged that I had already figured out how old I needed to be when I could drop out of school--in kindergarten! Then in 4th grade I had another crazy teacher--I mean both of these teachers were nuts and they were both teaching in the 1960's, so I don't think bad teaching is anything new. Neither one of them came back to the school the following year, but I'm guessing they were moved to another school. I get pretty annoyed when people talk like bad teaching is a new thing--it's as old as mankind has had schools. There was no golden age of education! (I know you're not saying that Ivory--it's for the benefit of those who have some fantasy of perfect schools back then.)
One thing that is positive in the field of education is that it's no longer just one of 3 possible careers for women--it used to be you could be a teacher, a nurse, or a secretary. Now that almost any career is possible, you have a lot fewer people going into education just b/c it beats being a nurse or secretary. Also, you have a lot more men going into it than you used to, and that's a good thing b/c many of them have a real gift for teaching.
Oh gosh, you got me started Ivory. Another thing--a few years ago, I was subbing for the special school district, which means that I was going to different school districts in the county and working with sped kids. I got a glimpse into many of the districts--wealthy and not, and discovered that bad teaching is just as prevalent in the wealthy districts. Also, the wealthier districts are more likely to use those suspect math curriculums and other experimental programs. My favorite one was the 3rd grade teacher who had the kids make their own spelling lists and their friends tested them and the teacher herself couldn't spell even 3rd grade spelling words--so the kids were learning to spell incorrectly. This district is the wealthiest one in StL county.
Excellent question. I've always critically analyzed all of my teachers and professors. In high school and junior high the coaches were always terrible. Occasionally, I'd get trapped with a neurotic feminist or a bigoted teacher. In college it just got worse with their ability to mob out students at their fancy, not taking into regard that tuition and time are costly. Their cult-like excuse for discouragement and scorn was: "It's not me. It's the student. See, he doesn't get along with the others."
Bad teaching isn't new. I recommend these two books Profscam and History as Mystery. Both uncover a lot of disinformation and myths about school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I keep hearing references to how unions protect bad teachers but this is not somthing I see with any regularity. In my own schooling, I had two bad teachers. I may have had some who were ineffective, as a student I wouldn't have known, but only two I'd say were bad which leaves me asking just how big a problem unions protecting bad teachers is.
If you teach, please answer the poll. I'm just curious if this is any kind of real problem or just another scape goat to take our attention off of the real problems.
Seriously, given the work load and stress of this job, I can't see why someone who is a bad teacher would stay in the profession. There are much easier and less stressful ways to make a living.
The really one bad teacher I had was an authoratarian. She expected her students (4th and 5th) grades to toe the line and the line was placed to insure, constant, infractions. I'm convinced she was into control and the only people she could control were children so she was teacher. The other was a guy who was just doing time until retirement. He wanted to retire but couldn't so he didn't teach. I had him for health in high school. He did bizzare things because he knew he could get away with them. 20/20 hind sight, I'm thinking he was trying to prove that the administration would not do anything no matter how strange his behavior. As far as I know, they didn't.
So, out of 41-48 teachers (can't remember if I had a 6 or 7 period day in middle/high school), I've seen two that should have been fired, IMO. While that's not good, I have to wonder how much of what plagues education today can really be blamed on two teachers in the course of a 13 year education being bad.
I knew of a teacher, when I was teaching, who was not that great. And she was given a poor eval by the supervisor. And fought it, and it was reversed. But, her students were cherry picked, she did not get kids who were very academic, or parents who were savvy. Sorry, but that is the truth. Most of her students had minority parents, who were not on the ball. This is because the supervisor knew that savvy parents would have complained about her, so to reduce that issue, she just cherry picked students for that teacher.
Last edited by jasper12; 11-13-2010 at 12:41 PM..
Reason: edit
Unfortunately, the bad teachers in my school are not protected by the union, but rather by the principal. Many of them were alternate route teachers that had an outside of school connection to the principal and they are virtually untouchable in the school. One actually sits at her desk all day on the computer or working on her plans and then whines when she doesn't get complimented on her awesome teaching skills
Everyone likes to blame the unions, but if administrators did their jobs, some of these teachers would not still have jobs. Unions do not strive to keep bad teachers in positions, but rather protect good teachers from being removed without due process.
I'm in a charter school without a union. I can honestly say, I don't think we have any bad teachers. We had one last year, but she was fired.
Growing up, I can only think of one teacher that was past his prime, it was the middle school band teacher. We learned some, but he wasn't a fantastic teacher by any means.
We aren't unionized. I don't work with very many TERRIBLE teachers...they're usually self-selecting, because they know they're in over their heads and are typically not enjoying being there. As others have pointed out, it's pretty pointless to do the job if you hate it...so the ones who are awful don't last long. Consequently, it's not the terrible teachers that trouble me. It's the exceptionally mediocre ones. And we have many, many mediocre educators. In fact, I would say that we have only a handful of EXCELLENT educators, and I think that's probably par for the course.
I can honestly say that we have no bad teachers at my school. I know this because we have a very small staff. We all have our weaknesses, of course. One teacher rambles, during instruction, which bugs some kids. I struggle with getting things graded in a timely manner, and another is a good teacher, but is kind of impersonal toward the students. But we all care about our kids, we all know our subject area, and we all want to do a decent job of educating our students.
From what I've heard about other schools, I'm a very lucky teacher.
We aren't unionized. I don't work with very many TERRIBLE teachers...they're usually self-selecting, because they know they're in over their heads and are typically not enjoying being there. As others have pointed out, it's pretty pointless to do the job if you hate it...so the ones who are awful don't last long. Consequently, it's not the terrible teachers that trouble me. It's the exceptionally mediocre ones. And we have many, many mediocre educators. In fact, I would say that we have only a handful of EXCELLENT educators, and I think that's probably par for the course.
I think that's par for the course in any field. What percentage of any profession is EXCELLENT? Most of us are somewhere near average.
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