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If you add in benefits such as pension, their pay isn't that bad. In NC, the pay is quoted as "low" as it starts @ $35k a year. What teachers don't tell you is their pension costs add about a $20,000 a year cost to that salary that people in the private sector don't get. They are lucky to get 50% matching on 5% of their pay, ie 2.5%. So I don't believe the pay is really low when you look at the entire pay package.
That depends on where you are. I get a 1% match on 2% contributed to a 403B and contribute 11.5% of my income towards my retirement. Granted it's a nice retirement package but for 11.5% (includes a contribution fo medical), it had better be. I only contributed 1.5% in industry for a pension calculated the exact same way (but my company did a 50% match up to 6% of my income). Of course, all I have left is the 401K since the company defaulted on the pension plan...I did get my 1.5% contributions back with interest but that's it.
I contribute to a 403b, but there is no matching. For us, the part that isn't very good is the retiree healthcare. It's expensive.
I'm on a new hybrid system so I get a small match on a 403B and pay more towards retirement and medical. I just hope I get everything I'm paying in back when I leave teaching as I'm not likely to vest for retirement. I'm going to be, majorly, PO'd if I've paid 11.5% of my income for 5 years and get nothing for it. (I'm disillusioned with teaching. The way they want it done, anyone can do this job and I'd rather do a job where what I do matters and not everyone can do my job.)
To be honest, my pension is expensive enough that I'd opt out and just save the money myself if they gave me that option. I've also been burned by losing one pension so I don't trust that a pension will be there. I'm going for money in the bank.
Teachers and professors have some of the most important jobs in society IMO, yet they are criminally underpaid for it. I went to a rigorous high school that regularly sent many kids to top colleges. That wasn't by accident, that was because they were well educated by the teachers at the school. And the teachers actually make less there than they would in public schools. This past semester at uni I had a calculus professor, great guy, taught one or two huge classes of business calculus. You know how much he makes? About $35K a year. Granted, there are also very well-paid professors (like my accounting professor, $150K/year) but it seems like they tend to be department heads or fellows or some other such thing.
Depending on the school, teachers also function as babysitters. Lord knows some kids barely have parents present at home, so the people they spend eight hours a day with inadvertently end up as their sort of surrogate parents. Yeah teachers get three months of vacation in the summer but honestly I'm not sure that'd be worth being paid very little money in order to teach in an underperforming or violent school.
So why are teachers paid so little?
To me one of the reasons is that the taxpayers do not want to pay more for education. I have read a few times how is some Hometowns U.S.A voted down more funding for their school districts.
Also, to me having a socialized education system does not allow for competition to provide the best education possible for children due to lack of competition. Artificial wages that force payment in any business does interfere with the natural laws of free markets. If the schools were allowed to work under the free market many teachers would be paid a lot more because the better schools would try to recruit them. If you say that that means that other schools would pay less, that is correct. The schools that would give poor quality education would not make it and the parenst would ensure their kids would attend better schools.
The question would then be, how about kids in poor neighborhoods? They can still look for better schools based on their income so the parents would be assisted by the state in 'shopping' around for the better schools with the money they would get from the state and pay the school.
Under the present system it is no better because it is the only school you can go and mandated to attend unless you pay for private school out of your own pocket.
In a society like ours the job is paid due to demand. We as a society do pay high wages to sports players. What is more important? To teach or to play ball?
Teacher pay has in my opinion historically low. Many other professions do pay better. To be a teacher could be for a couple of reason that I know. Either it is your calling or the education is less demanding than in others. What is the average GPA for teachers when they went to school as compared to other professions? I do not mean to make teachers look in a bad light but look at the numbers.
The bottom line still is that the local counties only have so much money. Taxpayers do not want to pay more and yet demand more. You can only do so much with what you got, take care.
That depends on where you are. I get a 1% match on 2% contributed to a 403B and contribute 11.5% of my income towards my retirement. Granted it's a nice retirement package but for 11.5% (includes a contribution fo medical), it had better be. I only contributed 1.5% in industry for a pension calculated the exact same way (but my company did a 50% match up to 6% of my income). Of course, all I have left is the 401K since the company defaulted on the pension plan...I did get my 1.5% contributions back with interest but that's it.
11% contribution is nothing when you include medical. Even if you didn't. It's very little. To obtain the type of retirement packages teachers are eligible for, one would need to contribute upwards of 50% of their pay (on average).
Teachers and professors have some of the most important jobs in society IMO, yet they are criminally underpaid for it. I went to a rigorous high school that regularly sent many kids to top colleges. That wasn't by accident, that was because they were well educated by the teachers at the school. And the teachers actually make less there than they would in public schools. This past semester at uni I had a calculus professor, great guy, taught one or two huge classes of business calculus. You know how much he makes? About $35K a year. Granted, there are also very well-paid professors (like my accounting professor, $150K/year) but it seems like they tend to be department heads or fellows or some other such thing.
Depending on the school, teachers also function as babysitters. Lord knows some kids barely have parents present at home, so the people they spend eight hours a day with inadvertently end up as their sort of surrogate parents. Yeah teachers get three months of vacation in the summer but honestly I'm not sure that'd be worth being paid very little money in order to teach in an underperforming or violent school.
So why are teachers paid so little?
They're payed plenty and they're getting raises on top of that.
University of California's Over-$100,000 Earners (http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/ucpay/ - broken link)
11% contribution is nothing when you include medical. Even if you didn't. It's very little. To obtain the type of retirement packages teachers are eligible for, one would need to contribute upwards of 50% of their pay (on average).
Actually, no. I contributed 1.5% of my income, as an engineer, for a pension with the same calculation based on income. Still, I'd rather have the money since the courts have allowed my old company to default on our pensions. They did return our contributions but we got nothing for the pension we were promised that we'll never see. We just got our contributions back.
11.5% of my income over 30 years invested at 3% would be about 4.5 years income at retirement (3% would be very low for long term investments.). At 30 years, my pension would be 45% of the average of my last 5 years pay. So my pension would be 100% self funded for the first 11 years. After that, the state would have to pay my pension. Had the company I used to work for not gone bankrupt, I would have had the same pension on a 1.5% contribution. I'm not sure where you're getting that this is such a great pension. It's pretty standard except for the heavy employee contribution.
I'd take the 11.5% and invest it myself in a heart beat even without medical (which I'm pretty sure I'll never get anyway the way things are going). I no longer trust a company or anyone else to fund a pension. Once burned, twice shy. I'm just hoping that, at some point, they let me cash out of my retirement. I can do a lot with that kind of money.
If you add in benefits such as pension, their pay isn't that bad. In NC, the pay is quoted as "low" as it starts @ $35k a year. What teachers don't tell you is their pension costs add about a $20,000 a year cost to that salary that people in the private sector don't get. They are lucky to get 50% matching on 5% of their pay, ie 2.5%. So I don't believe the pay is really low when you look at the entire pay package.
Actually, starting salary is $30,430 and the pension costs are actually about $2,000, not 20k. Teachers are extremely poorly paid when compared to other professionals with similar education.
To me one of the reasons is that the taxpayers do not want to pay more for education. I have read a few times how is some Hometowns U.S.A voted down more funding for their school districts.
Also, to me having a socialized education system does not allow for competition to provide the best education possible for children due to lack of competition. Artificial wages that force payment in any business does interfere with the natural laws of free markets. If the schools were allowed to work under the free market many teachers would be paid a lot more because the better schools would try to recruit them. If you say that that means that other schools would pay less, that is correct. The schools that would give poor quality education would not make it and the parenst would ensure their kids would attend better schools.
The question would then be, how about kids in poor neighborhoods? They can still look for better schools based on their income so the parents would be assisted by the state in 'shopping' around for the better schools with the money they would get from the state and pay the school.
Under the present system it is no better because it is the only school you can go and mandated to attend unless you pay for private school out of your own pocket.
In a society like ours the job is paid due to demand. We as a society do pay high wages to sports players. What is more important? To teach or to play ball?
Teacher pay has in my opinion historically low. Many other professions do pay better. To be a teacher could be for a couple of reason that I know. Either it is your calling or the education is less demanding than in others. What is the average GPA for teachers when they went to school as compared to other professions? I do not mean to make teachers look in a bad light but look at the numbers.
The bottom line still is that the local counties only have so much money. Taxpayers do not want to pay more and yet demand more. You can only do so much with what you got, take care.
Sorry but I think you have a few wrong points.
Finland has one of the top educational systems in the world. Although, Finland is not a "socialist" country but with a 30% tax rate and plenty of welfare systems in place many Americans will be quick to label it as such.
Finding and hiring the best teachers has been the monumental task that states have been trying to accomplish since I started teaching. What states have been unable to capture and measure are the factors that define what a "good" teacher is. We currently produce test takers and teach to the test for high test scores. Does that mean we are great teachers? ... then do we fire the special education teacher for the low test scores? Heck, what makes a good art teacher?
The high demand & high pay theory really doesn't work in education. There is a strong demand in Speech Language, special education, science and math. The pay is the same or they are given an extra year of service credit maybe worth $600 or so a year.
I agree with you, the funding of public education needs to be revamped. I'm not sure I have any answers there. I'm not in favor of a 30% tax rate but something does need to change.
Teachers are extremely poorly paid when compared to other professionals with similar education.
That line is often mentioned by teachers to rationalize higher salaries without any citation to substantiate that claim. It has become some sort of hypnotic mantra. Truthfully, teaching requires a bachelors degree for pre-collegiate level work. There is too much self delusion and overly exalted view regarding the importance of their positions. Have personally observed this in many instances among academia and government employees with a view to increasing salaries and budgets.
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I only contributed 1.5% in industry for a pension calculated the exact same way (but my company did a 50% match up to 6% of my income). Of course, all I have left is the 401K since the company defaulted on the pension plan...I did get my 1.5% contributions back with interest but that's it.
