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Old 05-29-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Saint Louis, MO
1,197 posts, read 2,279,447 times
Reputation: 1017

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I have the benefit of being a teacher in middle school for 6 years before subbing as I'm looking for a job in a new state. The biggest thing is "social skills". You have to find a way to get the kids to either fear you or like you. If they fear you then they will behave. It doesn't sound like that is really an option given your personality. So you need to go the "like you route". Now the key is that you can't get them to like you in a friendly way but rather in a "cool aunt/uncle" way. Talk to them about things that you may have in common. Come across as "cool" while still enforcing the rules. Don't get angry or frustrated when they misbehave, simply redirect and mete out consequences. And a key thing is to always make a connection with the students that get the consequences. Let them know that it's not personal by striking up a conversation with them the next time you see them like nothing happened. If the relationship is looked at as adversarial, you will never get the results you are looking for. Middle schoolers have to believe that you care about them.

I subbed a few months ago at a middle school and there were several teachers out that day at a conference. The kids were pretty unruly, but mostly it was just talking a lot and not doing their work. As I knew the situation with a bunch of teachers, including the principal, being out I lowered my behavior expectations a little. But I started out the class by letting them know a little talking was fine, but if it interfered with work then I would cease it altogether. I had one instance where I had to call the office on a kid who pretended to by hurt from tripping and refused to get up off the ground (he was playing to his peers). Later that day I saw him in the hallway and I asked how he was doing. He seemed genuinely surprised because he figured I was pissed at him. As I was leaving the secretary apologized to me for the behavior of the students. Apparently in some classes they had to send teachers or other staff in to control the classes.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:29 AM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,581,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoMT View Post
Here's one of the major issues I spotted. You assume that students are like you, that they want to learn, that they understand (or even enjoy) the rules.

This is not the case, as should be clear by now. Most kids are not like that, even if you were.

I had a little trouble with this mindset in the beginning. In student teaching, I had the most trouble with students who 1) were mean and 2) didn't want to learn. That's because I was never like that. As a kid, I was always courteous to adults, and open to new ideas. As a new teacher, I had a hard time understanding that some kids weren't like this. The more I experienced different students in the classroom, though, the more I realized many (in some places, most) students are not initially well-mannered or rational. I accepted it, and then I was able to approach the problems with solutions.

Really, like some have said, it's all about social skills. You've realized this I think. Teaching is much more "social skills" than you ever thought before. Simply "lightening up" can do wonders. Just a smile, even. Be a person, and treat them like people. If kids don't believe that you are "on their side," they are not going to listen to you at all.

Think about it like this. You are a new face coming into their classroom. They have never seen or heard you before. And now, within minutes of meeting these kids, you start attempting to micromanage their actions. Heck, many adults would have problems with that... and kids are more sensitive than adults. You have to see it from the students' perspective. I have a theory that students of this generation care more about "coolness" than ever before. Social media connects everyone and everything now. Social skills are more important to this generation of kids than most other things. If you aren't approaching them on a social level FIRST, you start at huge disadvantage.

Look, here's the most important advice I heard before starting to sub in inner-city schools.
1) Take attendance.
2) Make sure nobody gets hurt.
3) Only allow one person to leave the room at a time to use the restroom.

Everything else is just gravy. If you act respectable, and ask the students to be quiet and do work, and they still don't -- then it's not your fault. That's more a reflection of the students, their home environments, and their regular teachers. As long as those three things above get done, you did fine that day. Kids will be kids. Do not try to fight or confront them, do not threaten them, because then it's 30 against 1. As others have said, and what you have noticed... that is a battle you cannot win.


Another thing you have learned here: University does not prepare you for the real world. It takes time to understand and get good at these things. Ideally, your student teaching experience would have taught you some ways to deal with these things, but it sounds like your cooperating teacher wasn't doing the best job. It will be a struggle, but you can still get better at this. You just have to give yourself time, and try different things (within boundaries) each day when you sub. Do your best to not take it personally. And remember to always treat students like people who are able to make their own responsible decisions (even if they really aren't completely).

If you want to be a teacher, I really think you can, it's not too late and you don't have to change careers. But, you really should spend some time reflecting to see if it's actually the thing you want to do, and something that you can do. If you want to get better, you most probably can. If not, there's no shame in switching to something else.
"Social skills," I wish that were an area in which I could excel. I've never been really good in this department. When I was a child, I frequently avoided social situations so that I could avoid punishment for not understanding the rules. I've always been super sensitive to criticism, to the point of wanting to avoid anyone who could criticize me, including my peers. I've examined the ways I thought and behaved as a child and kind of wonder if I might have some kind of social learning disorder, like Aspergers or Social Anxiety. It feels like I can't really grasp the concept of being "cool" or "fitting in," even when I want to. It would be great if I could bring myself to ask the other teachers for help and advice in a way that would actually make them want to help me, but so far I just get the usual pieces of advice. It's like they don't even care.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:44 AM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,581,435 times
Reputation: 2957
Quote:
Originally Posted by scocar View Post
I have the benefit of being a teacher in middle school for 6 years before subbing as I'm looking for a job in a new state. The biggest thing is "social skills". You have to find a way to get the kids to either fear you or like you. If they fear you then they will behave. It doesn't sound like that is really an option given your personality. So you need to go the "like you route". Now the key is that you can't get them to like you in a friendly way but rather in a "cool aunt/uncle" way. Talk to them about things that you may have in common. Come across as "cool" while still enforcing the rules. Don't get angry or frustrated when they misbehave, simply redirect and mete out consequences. And a key thing is to always make a connection with the students that get the consequences. Let them know that it's not personal by striking up a conversation with them the next time you see them like nothing happened. If the relationship is looked at as adversarial, you will never get the results you are looking for. Middle schoolers have to believe that you care about them.

I subbed a few months ago at a middle school and there were several teachers out that day at a conference. The kids were pretty unruly, but mostly it was just talking a lot and not doing their work. As I knew the situation with a bunch of teachers, including the principal, being out I lowered my behavior expectations a little. But I started out the class by letting them know a little talking was fine, but if it interfered with work then I would cease it altogether. I had one instance where I had to call the office on a kid who pretended to by hurt from tripping and refused to get up off the ground (he was playing to his peers). Later that day I saw him in the hallway and I asked how he was doing. He seemed genuinely surprised because he figured I was pissed at him. As I was leaving the secretary apologized to me for the behavior of the students. Apparently in some classes they had to send teachers or other staff in to control the classes.
How on Earth did you get them to stop talking once they started? At most of the middle schools where I've subbed, the admins do not respond to subs who try to enforce "arbitrary" rules, like "no talking." How they expect us to actually get work done in such an environment, though, is completely beyond me! Most of the teachers and admins tell me that the kids automatically assume they have a "free day" when subs are in the room, yet they still tell me I need to work on my classroom management skills when I have no way to enforce rules. How ridiculous is that?
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
"Social skills," I wish that were an area in which I could excel. I've never been really good in this department. When I was a child, I frequently avoided social situations so that I could avoid punishment for not understanding the rules. I've always been super sensitive to criticism, to the point of wanting to avoid anyone who could criticize me, including my peers. I've examined the ways I thought and behaved as a child and kind of wonder if I might have some kind of social learning disorder, like Aspergers or Social Anxiety. It feels like I can't really grasp the concept of being "cool" or "fitting in," even when I want to. It would be great if I could bring myself to ask the other teachers for help and advice in a way that would actually make them want to help me, but so far I just get the usual pieces of advice. It's like they don't even care.
I don't think your issues are with the kids. I think your issues are with you.

Possibly look into accounting as a career. They pretty much work alone with very little peer to peer interaction.
You should look into careers that don't involve interaction..sit there by yourself doing your thing and no one bothers you.

Or use your degree to go into curriculum development or something like that at the higher level of education outside of classrooms and schools.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:59 PM
 
425 posts, read 431,936 times
Reputation: 411
I'm sorry but I disagree with HappyTexan that you must find a different job. kmb501, I know for certain you CAN improve if you want to. I was somewhat similar to you, and I've improved a lot. Just keep some of the concepts in mind that people have advised to you, and work on those things.

Like I and others have stated, the best thing you can do is establish yourself as an ally. THEN this will allow you to be firm, that there are rules to be followed and work to be done. Another art is knowing when you stay firm, and when to be flexible. Students generally do not respect rigidity, especially if they see no reason for it. This all takes a lot of reflection and experience to get better at.


Depending on the school and class, it may be virtually impossible to get the students to work while you are subbing on some random day. But you shouldn't feel completely out of control. When all is said and done, if you have established yourself as a respectable, caring enforcer, and the students still will not do work -- let it go. It's mostly not your fault at that point. Then at the end of the day, think about what you could have done better.
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