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The worst thing you can do to a student, is tell them they are gifted and are entitled to special status. Truly gifted students will take charge of their own education and will have learned more pre-school, than many will during school. Take a close look at the life-outcomes of those who are put in honor classes. Their performance in the real world, is mediocre.
From my supposedly "high-achieving" high school class, three of them graduated four years later from our university, with three of the places in the "Senior-Six", the highest level of 130, who made Phi Beta Kappa. Ten years later, one of them was an attendant at a day-care center, working with 3-year olds. Another was the divorced wife of a very wealthy guy, who she later found was a homosexual. She had no job. The other completely vanished and no one in town had any idea what had happened to her. There was another honor-roll member from our high school, who was class president and voted "Most Likely to Succeed". At age 35, he was working as the janitor at a chain of banks.
When I met and talked to this guy, I was with a new woman-friend. He had been describing how much he liked working as a janitor. Later, I pulled out my high school annual and showed her his pictures and the honors I described. She was speechless. The lesson is, that if you try to manufacture honors students our of those who just don't have the chops for it, the end result won't be good. The really good ones don't need your help and they don't have a need for recognition by others-------they just learn a lot and perform well. Far too much fuss is made over the appointed scholars, whose progress is stifled by the unearned status that is handed to them.
The worst thing you can do to a student, is tell them they are gifted and are entitled to special status. Truly gifted students will take charge of their own education and will have learned more pre-school, than many will during school. Take a close look at the life-outcomes of those who are put in honor classes. Their performance in the real world, is mediocre.
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Agreed. And parents do this all the time.
Not so sure I agree with that at all. Some will, but others will choose to be as typical a kid as they can be.
Other than anecdotally (and anecdotes are fine), do you have any support for that in the literature?
The worst thing you can do to a student, is tell them they are gifted and are entitled to special status. Truly gifted students will take charge of their own education and will have learned more pre-school, than many will during school. Take a close look at the life-outcomes of those who are put in honor classes. Their performance in the real world, is mediocre.
From my supposedly "high-achieving" high school class, three of them graduated four years later from our university, with three of the places in the "Senior-Six", the highest level of 130, who made Phi Beta Kappa. Ten years later, one of them was an attendant at a day-care center, working with 3-year olds. Another was the divorced wife of a very wealthy guy, who she later found was a homosexual. She had no job. The other completely vanished and no one in town had any idea what had happened to her. There was another honor-roll member from our high school, who was class president and voted "Most Likely to Succeed". At age 35, he was working as the janitor at a chain of banks.
When I met and talked to this guy, I was with a new woman-friend. He had been describing how much he liked working as a janitor. Later, I pulled out my high school annual and showed her his pictures and the honors I described. She was speechless. The lesson is, that if you try to manufacture honors students our of those who just don't have the chops for it, the end result won't be good. The really good ones don't need your help and they don't have a need for recognition by others-------they just learn a lot and perform well. Far too much fuss is made over the appointed scholars, whose progress is stifled by the unearned status that is handed to them.
Good honors and gifted programs are not about a label or special status. These programs should be about ensuring that kids that need appropriate challenges and differentiation from the regular curriculum are receiving it. Nothing more and nothing less. It's a typical misconception to argue that advanced students should be left to their own devices and they will be just fine.
The worst thing you can do to a student, is .... Far too much fuss is made over the appointed scholars, whose progress is stifled by the unearned status that is handed to them.
I'm always amazed by the number of people, from kids in school, to adults that have to make some negative comment about gifted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Agreed. And parents do this all the time.
Not so sure I agree with that at all. Some will, but others will choose to be as typical a kid as they can be.
Other than anecdotally (and anecdotes are fine), do you have any support for that in the literature?
One of the reasons I hated having some teachers teach only honors was that I think over time they lost perspective about what "regular kids" were all about.
Agree! I have taught on-level Algebra 1 in various schools for the past 8 years, a few times getting to teach Honors courses. This year I have some of each, CP, Honors, and applied. I like each one for different reasons. Honors Geometry, I get to totally geek out (like today when we proved that the circumcenter of a triangle is equidistant from the vertices), and also teach valuable life skills (how to be organized and manage time wisely) to the CP and below kids. Those are sometimes more rewarding because the kids "need" you more. What's most shocking is having the top-of-the-class 9th graders AND some of the bottom-of-the-class in back to back periods.
I think it's a nice balance. I tend to agree that if you teach only honors for too long, you lose touch. We recently had a debate about technology and many teachers of the advanced students were in favor of 1:1 devices for them. Having 5 out of my 6 classes be freshman, I was totally against the idea - they need to learn the basic organizational and note-taking skills first before we can expect them to do so on a device responsibly. Only a few seemed to agree with me and we were the ones with the CP and below tracks.
I like teaching honors. I appreciate that these kids want to learn, or at least try. And that they have a vision for their future, mostly.
I do not like teaching lower level classes. Mostly because their behavior is worst, they don't care, they don't study, and sometimes it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time. Teaching low level chemistry is like teaching middle school science, and I didn't sign up to be a middle school teacher. Also, lower level kids are way too much work. It's a struggle just to get them to bring a freakin pencil to class.
There are those honors students, however, who are nasty, brutal, cutthroat, scheming, and love nothing better than to be a contrarian to everything the teacher says.
Yeah, I got one in my honors class.
Think Tracy Flick from the brilliant school movie "Election." Smart? Sure. Good home? Yep. But I truly smile when the Tracy Flick of my current crop of twelfth graders is not in my class because of a sports event or because she's sick. I'd rather deal with any low-level kid than her. And most of them are more respectful in the bargain.
I like teaching honors. I appreciate that these kids want to learn, or at least try. And that they have a vision for their future, mostly.
I do not like teaching lower level classes. Mostly because their behavior is worst, they don't care, they don't study, and sometimes it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time. Teaching low level chemistry is like teaching middle school science, and I didn't sign up to be a middle school teacher. Also, lower level kids are way too much work. It's a struggle just to get them to bring a freakin pencil to class.
One thing that's nice, though, is that low- and average-level students are so totally fine with "just passing" - I've had kids be happy to get a 75 for the quarter.
Honors, on the other hand, fight for every last 1/2 point taken off on a test. It's especially worse in a small school when you have the only Honors section of that class - I taught Honors Geometry like this one year. 27 sophomores - 11 girls and 16 boys - last period of the day - the top 10 in the class in there. There were so many fights for the top it was unreal!
Kids debating endlessly over why they got docked that half a point, etc. IS tiresome. They're also going to be the ones trying to contest their performance evaluations with their bosses.
Smart, motivated, critically thinking students are great.
Students who've been conditioned their whole lives that they "deserve" 100% in everything in life, and that they are above critique are tiresome.
One thing that's nice, though, is that low- and average-level students are so totally fine with "just passing" - I've had kids be happy to get a 75 for the quarter.
Honors, on the other hand, fight for every last 1/2 point taken off on a test. It's especially worse in a small school when you have the only Honors section of that class - I taught Honors Geometry like this one year. 27 sophomores - 11 girls and 16 boys - last period of the day - the top 10 in the class in there. There were so many fights for the top it was unreal!
Over the years I had a lot of kids who were happy with a 60%.
Had one kid one year who got back the first test and he had a 45. He got all excited and I figured "Oh crap, he's going to complain". Nope. He was excited because that was the highest grade he'd ever gotten on a History test.
I ended up pushing him through, repeating the class would have done nothing for him. Nice kid, very limited.
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