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I think the better question is what you are expecting. If assignments get ridiculous, you need to reorient the expectations of yourself and your child.
If you have the time, have fun with it. Do not help him as you did...it is a slippery slope! You'll wake up 10 years later as a helicopter parent and your have learned a fraction of what he/she could have.
Put your foot down with parents and the principal.
The challenge then is that the reward signals are going to have to come from you.
If you are too busy/working, then things will get really tough. But if your kid is getting innundated with the combo of minutia, ridiculous expectations and angst, then it is very unhealthy and you need to decouple.
Since you did so much of the work, how much pride is your son going to have presenting it?
There is a certain enthusiasm in presenting one's own work and a certain pride in having done his best. You take that away from him by doing so much of it yourself.
He could have done what you would consider an inadequate piece, but he would have had the feeling of real accomplishment.
Teachers give out age inappropriate work all the time. When my son was in 1st grade, the class was given a word search puzzle - HUGE puzzle. The puzzle was in upper case. The words you had to search for were in lower case. It took me 2 hours solid to do it. There was no way my non-reading son could have done that puzzle. Oh and the words? Were all college level scientific words. I kid you not - 10-14 letter words and more.
So the next morning I took it in to the teacher to tell her this was totally inappropriate for 1st graders and that it took ME 2 hours to do and she said I was the 4th parent to bring it in and complain. She said she had no idea what she was giving the kids. She thought it was "fun" work and it wasn't even for a grade. Ha!
So feedback to the teacher is important. But in our prior school, parents were expected to participate in the work. If you wanted a good grade, your parents were heavily involved. If they weren't the kid got a bad grade. Period. You played the game or you suffered. Some of it had to do with the development of the kids in those younger grades. They were all over the map as far as ability in K-2.
I know it's tough to allow your child to hand in work that looks like it was done by a child, but IT WAS DONE BY A CHILD. Relax and let your son do the project on his own.
Thanks for the input MommaBear. I should have called the science teacher right off and ask her how my son was taught to do such a report and went from there.
I don't know why there isn't more communication from the teachers about stuff like this.
My cousin teaches 2nd grade and she told me all about a "web" that her kids do to organize facts, etc. If my son has done this at school, it would be helpful if the teacher would have said so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spac3d
I wouldn't help him at all. I don't remember a single time my brother or I received any homework help from our parents and my brother and I turned out great. A teacher is not going to assign a project that REQUIRES parental help. Kids are more capable than you think.
You are handicapping him if you don't let him learn on his own.
I'm sorry. Do you have kids? My son's math homework REQUIRES adult help at least once a week. It is completely expected that the parents help their kids with their work here.
I'd say you and your brother were extremely lucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky
I just did a project similar to this with my 7 year old daughter. Its a bit different since we homeschool so I'm naturally more hands on anyhow.
I asked her what she wanted to learn that day for science. It was her day to pick. She picked spider monkeys. I asked her to write down some things she wanted to learn about them. She wanted to know about their habitat, eating habits, how they communicate and about reproduction. I had her put them into a nice order, with plenty of space to write in between with what she learned. I put introduction at the top and I threw in conservation and referances at the bottom.
Then I asked her where she could learn about spider monkeys. She gathered some books. I pulled out the A and M encylopedias, and she mentioned the internet. I helped her look the information up. I read the information in the books and helped her sum it into a few short sentences that were at her knowledge level. Then I let her go online free of myself to look up more and use the skills I had just taught her about summing the information. She wrote down some more info. I had preped her already on how to save her link so we could referance it later. We saved a picture for printing on the cover. Then we checked the report over for spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors. Then she typed it up. The program showed her spelling and grammar errors and I helped her type the first section so she knew what to do on the rest. I stepped back in to help with referances. Then I reminded her of some public speaking practice I had taught her and then had her present the information to her dad. It was a lot of work for a one page report but it will be a lot easier if I teach her the right way now. She had two errors, one word needed to be omitted and she had an enxtra space between two words. I didn't think she did too bad at all.
I think the better question is what you are expecting. If assignments get ridiculous, you need to reorient the expectations of yourself and your child.
If you have the time, have fun with it. Do not help him as you did...it is a slippery slope! You'll wake up 10 years later as a helicopter parent and your have learned a fraction of what he/she could have.
Put your foot down with parents and the principal.
The challenge then is that the reward signals are going to have to come from you.
If you are too busy/working, then things will get really tough. But if your kid is getting innundated with the combo of minutia, ridiculous expectations and angst, then it is very unhealthy and you need to decouple.
Good Luck! Not an easy predicament...
S.
That was the problem, precisely. Not what I was expecting, but what the teacher was expecting. I'm just not sure what teachers expect from kids. It would be nice to see an example of a "second grade level report" so that I would know if what my child was handing in would be appropriate. I don't want to take a gamble with HALF my child's science grade. I have no idea what is expected of a second grader.
Luckily he had no angst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night
Since you did so much of the work, how much pride is your son going to have presenting it?
There is a certain enthusiasm in presenting one's own work and a certain pride in having done his best. You take that away from him by doing so much of it yourself.
He could have done what you would consider an inadequate piece, but he would have had the feeling of real accomplishment.
There is nothing he would have done, when doing his best, that I would ever feel was inadequate.
They expect the parents to help here. That is certain. I don't know how many kids can even do their math homework independently with our math program (Everyday Math).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarNorthDallas
Teachers give out age inappropriate work all the time. When my son was in 1st grade, the class was given a word search puzzle - HUGE puzzle. The puzzle was in upper case. The words you had to search for were in lower case. It took me 2 hours solid to do it. There was no way my non-reading son could have done that puzzle. Oh and the words? Were all college level scientific words. I kid you not - 10-14 letter words and more.
So the next morning I took it in to the teacher to tell her this was totally inappropriate for 1st graders and that it took ME 2 hours to do and she said I was the 4th parent to bring it in and complain. She said she had no idea what she was giving the kids. She thought it was "fun" work and it wasn't even for a grade. Ha!
So feedback to the teacher is important. But in our prior school, parents were expected to participate in the work. If you wanted a good grade, your parents were heavily involved. If they weren't the kid got a bad grade. Period. You played the game or you suffered. Some of it had to do with the development of the kids in those younger grades. They were all over the map as far as ability in K-2.
I can't even figure out how they expect my son to do some of the math homework. This year has been better but last year was frustrating as all get out. I have often wondered the fate of kids who have no one at home to help them.
Perhaps I'll contact the teacher, explain to her how the we did the report together, and ask her if she feels this is acceptable. If she feels my level of involvement was too great, I'll ask her if he can choose another dinosaur and do it again.
However, I'll say this, based on the variety of responses here, pretty much it seems I should have:
A.)Got an easy to read book from the library
B.) Had him read it on his own
C.) Had him take notes while reading or after
D.) Had him write the report
E.) Taught him how to type something up on the computer and print it.
F.) Reviewed it with him for mistakes
G.) Had him edit it and finalize
H.) Create his visual project
I could totally see this taking 10-15 hours to accomplish.
I think in the end, THIS is why perhaps deep down I have a problem with him doing the assignment as outlined above. A 2nd grader shouldn't have an assignment that will take that long to complete. It's just too much, time-wise. Especially when it is HALF the science grade!
Thank you all for your responses.
You live and learn. He's my first in school so it is all new territory for me. And my parents were hands off. I managed to graduate magna *** laude from college but my brothers struggled and did not fare as well, one being a C/D student and one being a C student. I don't feel that leaving a kid to do it all on their own is the answer. (Both are very intelligent but hardly motivated.) I'll never put my kid through that much stress of feeling that he has no one to help him.
But after reading all this, one thing is clear, I should have called the teacher from the get go and that is what I will do from here on out. I can't supervise a kid doing a project when I don't know what they are looking for....
I don't want to take a gamble with HALF my child's science grade.
Don't stress over grades in 2nd grade. They are a way to tell you whether your child is learning. They don't count for anything until high school. If he had gotten a bad grade then both of you would have known what the expectations were.
They expect the parents to help here. That is certain. I don't know how many kids can even do their math homework independently with our math program (Everyday Math).
Help doesn't mean do it for them. BTW-, my kids used Everyday Math and they needed GUIDANCE, not help. They need to do the work, although its ok if you help them devise an approach to the homework.
Perhaps I'll contact the teacher, explain to her how the we did the report together, and ask her if she feels this is acceptable. If she feels my level of involvement was too great, I'll ask her if he can choose another dinosaur and do it again.
Don't stress. You are doing your best. I wouldn't make him do it again.
I could totally see this taking 10-15 hours to accomplish.
?? I don't see why it would take that much time. That is where a parent can come in handy. A parent supervises, edits, helps the child with ideas.
An example is that you tell him he should have 1 sentence about X, another sentence about Y, etc....so that you guide the writing and it takes him much less time. If he had trouble with ideas you can help with that. If he is a slow typist have him write it and then you type it, or have him tell you what he wants written and you type it.
It's not that you don't help, it's just that HE does the actual thinking.
I think in the end, THIS is why perhaps deep down I have a problem with him doing the assignment as outlined above. A 2nd grader shouldn't have an assignment that will take that long to complete. It's just too much, time-wise. Especially when it is HALF the science grade!
Relax about grades in elementary school. They are just meant to tell you how he is doing. They have no real long term impact on your child like they do in high school.
Thank you all for your responses.
You live and learn. He's my first in school so it is all new territory for me. And my parents were hands off. I managed to graduate magna *** laude from college but my brothers struggled and did not fare as well, one being a C/D student and one being a C student. I don't feel that leaving a kid to do it all on their own is the answer. (Both are very intelligent but hardly motivated.) I'll never put my kid through that much stress of feeling that he has no one to help him.
Don't confuse help with doing it for them. I always help my kids but I do not do their work for them. My son just finished a project on evolutionary biology (9th grade). I took him to 2 different libraries, helped him select his books, and I edited his paper for spelling, grammar, and clarity. THAT is help. I did not read the books, I did not write the paper, but I did help him.
It took him about 20 hours to do his project.
But after reading all this, one thing is clear, I should have called the teacher from the get go and that is what I will do from here on out. I can't supervise a kid doing a project when I don't know what they are looking for....
Thanks everyone.
Don't beat yourself up. Your son is young and you are doing the best you can. Have fun with him.
Assignments like these are an argument against homework. This student's peers will return with varying degrees of work, and how is the teacher going to assign a grade when it's obvious some of the work has been written by parents? The verbage and instructions might look impressive on paper but they are far beyond the ability of most second graders to accomplish independently.
Thanks for the input MommaBear. I should have called the science teacher right off and ask her how my son was taught to do such a report and went from there.
I don't know why there isn't more communication from the teachers about stuff like this.
....
My kids were in early ele school on the "cusp" of the computer age, e.g. before everyone googled everything. This is especially true of the older one (now 25, so 20 years ago in kindergarten, 18 yrs ago in 2nd grade). So forgive me if I don't understand what's going on these days. However, I think asking the teacher for some guidelines is helpful. In my kids' day, they probably would have been expected to go to the school library and get a few books about dinosaurs that were written on a 2nd grade level to complete the assignment.
I agree that you don't need to worry too much about grades in 2nd grade. In my experience with my kids, the grades got more important in upper ele, esp. 5th grade where they used them for placement in middle school the next year (just in math), and then in middle school where they were used for the same. Momma_Bear is right, they don't really count for much of anything until high school
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife
I disagree. In fact, most assignments from her school are parental needed type projects.
Well, typing is one thing, but the work should be the kids'. After about 3rd grade, the kid should be doing the typing, too, IMO.
I disagree. In fact, most assignments from her school are parental needed type projects.
Yup. I was talking to my in-laws about this just yesterday. Started with elementary assignments (those 'fun' projects that take us hours to do and always seem to have us shopping for things we don't have sitting around the house), turning everything into an art project (for my daughter that was great, for my non artistic son it was torture) right up to senior year in high school where just last week they were put into groups to write, video tape and edit a skit, develop a slide show with captions and sound effects, create a game that the whole class could play, in addition to the report each one had to write. Sounds 'fun' right? Well I'm sure it is for some people but when you are put into a group with people you don't know, who can't drive, who have jobs and can't get together, who don't have a video camera between them, don't have editing software or know how to use it, etc. well....you see where I'm going with this. I never complained to any teachers but I'm well aware that half the time they really don't consider what's involved or even have a good reason for assigning what they do. Thank goodness there is only 3 weeks left.
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