TN Governor Looking to Make 2 year Colleges Free (Kingsport, Central: unemployment rate, transfer to)

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

It's a good idea, but where are the jobs going to come from in much of the state? You can educate and train people until you're blue in the face, but there have to be jobs on the other side to make it worthwhile. I don't see a catalyst for jobs at least on the east end of the state.

I think there would be a lag for sure, but in the long run high tech business's or companies that demand higher education will become more confident in the state...in theory. Again, probably worth 34 mil. The federal government just spent that on useless programs with no potential in the amount of time it took me to write this sentence.

[JD59]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam signed a law Tuesday promising free community college tuition to every high school graduate in the state.

Michael Steele is principal of Stratford STEM Magnet High School in Nashville. More than half of the seniors here applied to college.

Tennessee promises free college to all high school grads - CBS News

[An Einnseanair]

I think it's good on the surface, but there should be minimum standards. The article states that EVERY graduating senior is guaranteed free tuition. Does that include the slacker who skates through high school with a 1.0 GPA and an ACT score of 12, or only people who make the current minimum grades needed for admission into college?

Does this also apply to trade schools that teach usable skills by training welders and diesel mechanics, or only to academic colleges?

But the biggest gap remains the older potential student. The person who either wasn't mature enough at high school graduation or else had life interfere with college plans and is now ineligible for pretty much any form of financial aid. So many people finally mature a few years after high school and are ready to buckle down and get a real education, only to find all doors closed to them.

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by jwkilgore

I think it's good on the surface, but there should be minimum standards. The article states that EVERY graduating senior is guaranteed free tuition. Does that include the slacker who skates through high school with a 1.0 GPA and an ACT score of 12, or only people who make the current minimum grades needed for admission into college?

Does this also apply to trade schools that teach usable skills by training welders and diesel mechanics, or only to academic colleges?

But the biggest gap remains the older potential student. The person who either wasn't mature enough at high school graduation or else had life interfere with college plans and is now ineligible for pretty much any form of financial aid. So many people finally mature a few years after high school and are ready to buckle down and get a real education, only to find all doors closed to them.

Bingo. And with the state colleges set to now raise tuitions, that gap between the older adults vs. this new crop of students getting free 2-year degrees will get even wider.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by jwkilgore

Does this also apply to trade schools that teach usable skills by training welders and diesel mechanics, or only to academic colleges?

But the biggest gap remains the older potential student. The person who either wasn't mature enough at high school graduation or else had life interfere with college plans and is now ineligible for pretty much any form of financial aid. So many people finally mature a few years after high school and are ready to buckle down and get a real education, only to find all doors closed to them.

I would like to see it apply to blue collar trades and be awarded by major. I went out with a woman last Saturday night in Nashville who is 29 and just finished up her two-year acting degree at a CC. She's living out of her car and working part-time minimum wage retail. IMO, allowing people to get free acting degrees is useless. If this was a two year nursing degree, I'd be far more amenable to it.

Like I said when this thread started, I still think the biggest beneficiaries would be nontraditional students who don't have many other options for aid. The lottery scholarship alone should cover most, if not all, of the expense of CC for traditional students. I was looking into returning to CC for an AS in accounting (when I already have a bachelor's in econ) when this thread was created because I was making so little income, and affording CC + my regular bills on the $11.68/hr I was making then would have been really tough. People in the situation like I was in need the help more than the traditional student.

[yarddawg]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

I would like to see it apply to blue collar trades and be awarded by major. I went out with a woman last Saturday night in Nashville who is 29 and just finished up her two-year acting degree at a CC. She's living out of her car and working part-time minimum wage retail. IMO, allowing people to get free acting degrees is useless. If this was a two year nursing degree, I'd be far more amenable to it...

Eh, even with an acting degree she should have had to complete a basic slate of general education courses in math/language/etc. that should make her more employable than not having any degree and also in a better position to get something more practical if the acting doesn't work out. There are a lot of corporate people-interaction type careers, human resources, customer service managers, etc. where a little acting background might be an asset. The problem with dictating "practical" degrees is that today's practical is next year's unemployable. Some of my cousins are in the nursing field and I've been hearing for a couple-three years that salaries and working conditions are sliding because it was one of the majors being promoted as indispensable during the worst of the financial crisis and now some sectors are becoming saturated with new grads.

My more cynical friends in academia believe the whole thing is nothing but a ploy to try to increase the percentage of students who do 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a university instead of 4 years at a university. It's much cheaper for the state in ways that have little to do with financial aid and a great deal to do with employee salaries and the cost of building and maintaining infrastructure.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by yarddawg

Eh, even with an acting degree she should have had to complete a basic slate of general education courses in math/language/etc. that should make her more employable than not having any degree and also in a better position to get something more practical if the acting doesn't work out. There are a lot of corporate people-interaction type careers, human resources, customer service managers, etc. where a little acting background might be an asset. The problem with dictating "practical" degrees is that today's practical is next year's unemployable. Some of my cousins are in the nursing field and I've been hearing for a couple-three years that salaries and working conditions are sliding because it was one of the majors being promoted as indispensable during the worst of the financial crisis and now some sectors are becoming saturated with new grads.

My more cynical friends in academia believe the whole thing is nothing but a ploy to try to increase the percentage of students who do 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a university instead of 4 years at a university. It's much cheaper for the state in ways that have little to do with financial aid and a great deal to do with employee salaries and the cost of building and maintaining infrastructure.

The thing is that there are far superior majors for those jobs you mentioned. As far as I know, she paid for this on her own dime, but with the job market the way it is, employers can be picky.

I'd agree on the costs. I've heard horror stories of how badly compensated CC employees are.

[hiknapster]

I love the past few posts by yarddawg, Emigrations and especially Sigequinox. Great stuff!

So, I came back to apologize. I was wrong. There is a piece of this new law for adults!

Tennessee Reconnect | Drive to 55

Here's the particulars on both programs.

http://www.driveto55.org/lib/file/ma...AQ__5-7-14.pdf

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by hiknapster

I love the past few posts by yarddawg, Emigrations and especially Sigequinox. Great stuff!

So, I came back to apologize. I was wrong. There is a piece of this new law for adults!

Tennessee Reconnect | Drive to 55

Here's the particulars on both programs.

http://www.driveto55.org/lib/file/ma...AQ__5-7-14.pdf

I think the "last dollar" approach is probably going to be more expensive than anticipated. As I noted, there often isn't enough financial aid for working adults, if any at all. This will probably end up covering almost all of the bills for the people this can apply to. Working adults also don't have family and a support system to fall back on like a kid coming out of high school.

I'm also not convinced that a "lack of education" is the problem with the state's economy. In just UPPER east TN/southwest VA we have the following colleges, without even counting the CCs, of which I can think of at least five:

1) ETSU
2) Milligan
3) King
4) Emory & Henry
5) VA Intermont
6) UVA-Wise
7) Tusculum
8) Lincoln-Memorial
9) Carson-Newman
10) Emmanuel School of Religion (across the street from Milligan, but technically different institution)

That's TEN colleges and universities in an area where there are very few jobs where a college education is required, or even useful. If anything, that part of the state is OVERSERVED in higher education, not the other way around. Other than maybe Nashville, I'd think the rest of the state is also overserved in education.

Point being we have a lot of colleges and have a lot of educated people graduating from the area's institutions, many of whom cannot find decent paying jobs in that part of the state and have to leave the area.

I've tried to make it work in TN, but Nashville is my only real option to perhaps make a living wage. Most of the career-minded people I grew up with have already left the state because there's not enough opportunity. Granted, making CC affordable is great, but I don't think this is really going to move the needle on the important thing - an ample amount of living wage jobs.

[jchometeam]

I do not support either of these laws- but I support the adult education initiative much more than the TN Promise.