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Old 03-12-2024, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788

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Wow.
TSLA may have to have give special training and necessary tools to buyers and to first responders.
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Old 03-12-2024, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
Reputation: 15848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Wow, really tragic.

We have tools to break the glass in all of our vehicles in an emergency. We have the Cybertruck on order and I was wondering what device would work on that glass?
The glass in the Cybertruck is supposed to be specially hardened, even if it's not "bulletproof"... it's a good question, and the trouble is, there's no easy or inexpensive way to test it. If you're in the seat inside you also won't be able to face the window comfortably or have room to swing well either, between the seat, the dash, the steering wheel, and the A-pillar, etc getting in your way...

They do make various hammers for this purpose, kind of short with a conical head to concentrate the force into a small area. I don't know if it will really work though, in any vehicle, let alone the Cybertruck.

Here is a AAA study on the situation, from about 5 years ago, which is not altogether encouraging. "During testing, AAA researchers found that only four of the tools were able to shatter the tempered glass and none were able to break the laminated glass, which stayed intact even after being cracked."

Story:
https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/artic...e-escape-tools

Full report:
https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/f...cape-Tools.pdf

It may not be comforting, but the odds of being underwater in your car aren't high. Obviously it happens, but not often.
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Old 03-12-2024, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788
Reverse drive mode.
I can understand how someone can place the shift into the wrong drive mode. Since I don't drive much, I pay special attention on our 2008 Prius 2, that either the backup camera comes on OR not, before I release the brake pedal and shift to throttle.

For automatic transmission cars, there is always a safety button, and/or R is the first position.
For manual transmission, we've had several, R can be in any number of corner positions but only if you perform a shift lever procedure.
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Old 03-12-2024, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
Reputation: 15848
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
Reverse drive mode.
I can understand how someone can place the shift into the wrong drive mode. Since I don't drive much, I pay special attention on our 2008 Prius 2, that either the backup camera comes on OR not, before I release the brake pedal and shift to throttle.

For automatic transmission cars, there is always a safety button, and/or R is the first position.
For manual transmission, we've had several, R can be in any number of corner positions but only if you perform a shift lever procedure.
Yes, I can see how it can be easy to make a mistake these days, especially with all these idiotic carmakers all making their own variant of what constitutes a shift selector. I like tech, but in terms of ergonomics of controls, I like familiar user interface norms, and I am glad that mine is still a console mounted shift lever with Park position at the front, and Drive in the back. With a familiar motion, I can just pull the lever straight back into Drive or push it forward into Park - without even looking, and it's always correct.
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Old 03-12-2024, 04:25 PM
 
21,884 posts, read 12,943,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
We have tools to break the glass in all of our vehicles in an emergency.
We ALL used to have the tools to break the glass; they were the head rests on the seats. Just pull them out and bang away with the posts! Probably long gone by now (I happily drive an old car).
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Old 03-12-2024, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,656 posts, read 13,969,723 times
Reputation: 18856
Here's a question....does Tesla sell their car in the Netherlands and if so, do they sell it there with this glass?

Such crashes appear to happen frequently enough there, https://www.google.com/search?q=car+...-wiz-serp#ip=1
(an instructional film I saw as a child led me to ask that question).

If they do sell their car there and it has different glass, then it shows they know about the risk but displayed reckless indifference in a country where it doesn't happen as often. If they sell there and it has the same glass, then how did it get pass that government?

Finally, I have been taught to use the head rests as a tool to break the glass (if not my .45 as someone suggested)......and now I am told that has been changed?

Gee, with people looking out for us like this, who needs enemies?
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,659 posts, read 87,041,175 times
Reputation: 131617
Here is an interesting analysis: (albeit pretty old)
https://thenationaltriallawyers.org/...-400-to-drown/
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Old 03-12-2024, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,659 posts, read 87,041,175 times
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Tamara: here are the changes made to Tesla sold in Europe and China
One of the several changes was
Quote:
The (double paned) laminated glass recently added to the front doors will be used for the rear windows, too.
More here:
https://autos.yahoo.com/2022-tesla-m...134000210.html

And here:
https://hypebeast.com/2023/9/2024-te...ectric-vehicle

Acoustic glass is made by laminating two pieces of glass together with a sound-blocking PVB (Polyvinyl Butyral) membrane. The membrane absorbs high-frequency sound waves so they are not transmitted through the glass into the vehicle cab. If you want a quieter ride, then you'll reap the benefits of acoustic glass. Compared to ordinary 5mm glass, acoustic glass reduces noise by up to 90%
It greatly reduces outside noise.
https://www.customglasssolutions.com...s-windshields/

Last edited by elnina; 03-12-2024 at 10:49 PM..
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Old 03-14-2024, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,830 posts, read 25,114,712 times
Reputation: 19061
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Of course, there is a long list (posted above) of cars using laminate glass. It saves life by preventing ejections.

The possible problem is that there is no working tool on the market that could quickly break such glass and save life.
Also a lot of vehicle owners have no clue how to escape when trapped inside in case of emergency, when battery is dead.
Some vehicles have emergency manual door release, with location that is not so obvious. Other vehicles are even more complicated. For example, Ford sedan: there is no emergency door release anywhere near the drivers door.
One has to get to the back seats, find the release to flip them down in order to get into the trunk to access the emergency pull located at the trunk door. All that hassle when every second counts.
This requires a lot of agility and nowadays not all drivers are going to perform it quickly, or ever.
There's simple hand-held tools for cutting laminated glass. You don't need anything special except for the quickly part which is what those tools are for. It's a specialized tool though that really its only purpose is first responders to quickly break and the saw through the lamentation to remove the window. It makes a lot more sense to just know how to use your door than keep one in the car. Since it's hand-held, it involves a good deal of strength. It would be difficult within the confines of a car. Even with the pressure differential of the water, it's likely a lot more feasible to just open the door than try and saw through laminated glass from inside even if you had the simple tool to do so in the car at hand. They also make attachments for regular cordless drills which take a lot of the strength out of the equation. I guess you could keep one in the car although I'd still think that just opening the door is the best first course of action.
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Old 03-14-2024, 09:23 PM
 
13,131 posts, read 20,972,911 times
Reputation: 21410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
We have the Cybertruck on order and I was wondering what device would work on that glass?
You want a Laminated Automotive Glass Breaker/Cutter, not the ordinary glass tools. Additionally, you may want to learn how to properly break through or remove the laminated auto glass as opposed to regular auto glass.

You will notice that when properly equip emergency responders arrive at a scene of a vehicle with laminated auto glass, they don't go whopping the surface. They will do two things.
One method is use a laminated auto glass breaker to crack apart a small area that enables them to insert the cutter into the lamination and slice into it. My working the tool in a line, it breaks the glass while slicing through the lamination. Often its done in a cross pattern to extricate a person from the vehicle. The breaker cutter looks something like an over sized mondo vintage knife edge lever can opener akin to the P-38.
The second method can be used with or without the special tool, but does require a knowledge of laminated auto glass. It helps if the "weak point" is identifiable. They will use any tool to break through the glass to frame adhesive (sometime by cutting the windshield pillar in parts) thus separating the physical glass from the frame. By systematically shattering the glass in a line, they create a fold point thus enable the glass to be folder unto itself as it's pried from the frame.
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