State property tax for school funding (event)

[orbius]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

loves2read, I agree with much of what you say. But I hope you don't believe Doggett's actions make sense. He is an idiot and should be kicked out of office.

Orbius - I cannot fathom how you trust the state government that much. I trust my school board. I kinda trust the county government. I trust the city of Austin less. And my trust level goes down from there.

When you want something like tax rules fairly enforced equally amongst all people in a State. I dont see how it makes any sense to give all the power to some small group of local people who could very easily profit from cheating for their pals. You want a faceless bureaucratic organization that has no personal relationship with the people to make fair decisions based on facts not on friendships or bribes.

I think the mentality of 'local' always good and 'State' or 'Federal' bad without looking at the issues in greater detail becomes something like fundamentalist thinking.

[loves2read]

padchrasher--I just don't agree that this is a means to "help" high dollar districts and "thwart" poorer districts from receiving their monies--
this is a plan to get access to ALL the property tax money in the state--and put the legislature in charge of setting the tax rate...
the Lottery was "sold" to the public under the premise that the funds received would be minimally used to cover the costs of the Lottery itself and the rest of the money (millions and millions) would go TO SCHOOLS--so that local property taxes and maybe some state taxes could be reduced and people in general would benefit from the Lottery and the school children of Texas certainly would--
well that was a lie--
property taxes in most districts have only gone up--the state HAS to be honest given some increases to districts but those were NOT ongoing--not permanent for the most part--
the majority of the monies (which are dropping) from the Lottery intake are kept in the General fund and used to cover any aspect of state business...
it is not ONLY for the use of the public schools--and it never will be...

and I fear is that IF the Legislature gets it hands on a state-wide property tax/assessment system that it too will not be specifically tied to school support--but it will go into the General Fund and be dispersed as the Legislature sees fit--
and frankly they don't "see fit" to do many things I think are fair, intelligent, and based on helping the people of Texas in general...
I think the Legislature is under the paw of big business and special interest groups to the detrement of the state--
we have one of the strongest economies in the US, have a diversified work force, have decent highway system for transportation even if we do lack mass public transit in many areas--we actually do have a semi-decent public school system but that is owning to LOCAL oversight/involvement for the most part and certainly not the State Board of Education or TEA or the Legislature who are often disruptive to the process of education in general...
and yet look at our rankings compared to other states for factors like poverty, illiteracy, household income, insured, and the list goes on...
we live in a state where that are definite divisions of class and frankly the Legislature seems intent on making that division wider --
partly that is because it is Republican controlled and the Republicans are really no friend of the "common man" despite their rhetoric to the contrary...
partly it is because TX has long history of being a conservative (read backward) state where people pride themselves on being "against new ideas" that seem to radical or liberal...

to me--the only way to keep this state from being even MORE right wing is to have some pockets of sanity where local people have some control over factors that are important--
local education is one and local taxation is another...
the Robin Hood plan will go from just a few districts to the entire state--and ALL districts will suffer; all students will suffer--becuase the Legislature will find ways to cut back on funding and keep monies for other needs they deem more important to keeping the state operating...


anyone who thinks giving the Legislature with its syncophants to special interest groups, its incredibly stupid members a key to YOUR pocketbook is smart--obviously has no knowledge of how the Legislature really does business and how often it has promised one thing and done something the opposite...

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by orbius

When you want something like tax rules fairly enforced equally amongst all people in a State. I dont see how it makes any sense to give all the power to some small group of local people who could very easily profit from cheating for their pals. You want a faceless bureaucratic organization that has no personal relationship with the people to make fair decisions based on facts not on friendships or bribes.

I think the mentality of 'local' always good and 'State' or 'Federal' bad without looking at the issues in greater detail becomes something like fundamentalist thinking.

I suppose it might indeed be fundamentalist thinking - though I haven't heard it described that way. I believe the bigger and further away the government is - the worse it is. Not always true - for example NATIONAL defense.

But your statement of "all the power to some small local group" is completely false. Giving power to local groups breaks up power. Putting it in the state (or Feds) concentrates it. It magnifies it, and makes corruption even bigger.

So you and I will never agree on this.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by loves2read

and that is exactly what the Legislature did the last time it got Federal money to SUPPLEMENT educational spending--
there was no supplement to it--the state just reduced the monies it should have spent from the general funds to cover shortages in other areas and allow Rick Perry to preen about his balanced budget...
which is why Lloyd Doggett included the proviso that TX had to appropriate a fixed amount of money and promise NOT to swap general funds for federals funds if TX were to get Federal monies this time--
Perry said they could not comply because of the timing of the state budget--bogus...
just rationalization for being caught with his hand in the cookie jar the last time and not being allowed to get in this time...

Doggett's little clause was a tactic that ultimately ties the governor's hands. I doubt if a Dem governor would like it any more.

Doggett has a near 100% probability of supporting a school funding system based on state controlled distribution of funds. He wants to spread the money around as he and like-minded people see fit. I don't doubt that he cares very much about education. But his view of how to achieve is probably 180 degrees opposite of me.

[loves2read]

the power now IS broken up to certain extent--
local school boards setting local tax rate dealing with local residents
having the central legislature hold sway over this is just asking for trouble--
and I am not saying that because I am a Tea Party believe or a even a moderate Republican--
always a Democrate--first person I voted for for Governor of Texas was Sissy Farenthold...

if you know the TX constitution what was tied was not the Govenor's hands--because he really has little to do with how the budget is actually constructed since all the power is in the Legislature--
Perry has just put himself forward to make people believe he "runs" the state like the President runs America--
this legislature runs just fine when you have a govenor out of the state for more than half the days of the year-- like Bush was when he was running for office..
the govenor of TX is a more of a figurehead --it is the Asst Govenor who has more interaction with legislature and ours has really dropped the ball...

[orbius]

Well regardless of what anyone feels about the issue its not going to go away until funding is equal for all children in the State. The reason this is on the table is because there is an airtight lawsuit against the State that is going to require some kind of major change in how districts are funded.
If the State takes another half measure in trying to rectify this problem its just a matter of time until another lawsuit comes down the pipe.

Time to bite the bullet and move things upstream IMO.

[jazznblues]

Funding for schools will NEVER be equal nor do I believe it should be.

Funding should be instead sufficient.

Loves2read - I can't figure out if you want people like Doggett dictating spending on schools at the state level or if you want local control. I think if Doggett had his way - all schools would receive equal funding under state control - he would raise the floor by lowering the ceiling drastically.

[orbius]

Originally Posted by jazznblues

Funding for schools will NEVER be equal nor do I believe it should be.

Funding should be instead sufficient.

Loves2read - I can't figure out if you want people like Doggett dictating spending on schools at the state level or if you want local control. I think if Doggett had his way - all schools would receive equal funding under state control - he would raise the floor by lowering the ceiling drastically.

What you want is inconsequential the courts are going to determine that Texas doesnt live up to its Constitutional decree to provide quality education for all kids. The politicians are just trying to get ahead of things so a court doesnt decide how property taxes will be distributed.

[jazznblues]

Originally Posted by orbius

What you want is inconsequential the courts are going to determine that Texas doesnt live up to its Constitutional decree to provide quality education for all kids when it gives rich kids a better education than poor kids.

At least the racists in the 50's framed their argument as separate but equal. You're framing it as yes its unequal but I dont care. Time to enter the 21st century Texas its no longer acceptable to discriminate against poor children and tie one hand behind their back by giving them an inferior education.

Quality education for all is not the same as equal for all. I agree Texas should should provide a quality public education for people of all means. I recognize that children don't choose their parents and are at the mercy of their parents' economic condidtion.

But I do not believe it is possible to provide an equal education for all. There is no place in the United States where education is equal for all. Do you think wealthy kids on Massachusetts have the same public school education as poor kids?

Parents willing to spend more should be able to do so by investing more in their public schools without taking away from others.

Aiming for equal will drive people with means out of public schools. The end result will be bad for everyone.

[orbius]

I think it should be the goal of every state to grant equal funding to each student. Eventually that is where all states will be IMO, anything else is unjustifiable and discriminatory.