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Early March, 2011 - Repairing & Staining existing fence - Approached by Building Inspector for Town of Flower Mound, TX. - Asked if I had a "Permit" - Said I'm just repairing my fence - He informed me that I needed to obtain a permit. ($60.00) - The next day I went to the Building Dept. -
Spent next 3 weeks, trying to satisify their requirement. (5-6 trips to their office, more emails than I can count.
Ruling from Supervisor: Part of my fence was errected by previousowners) & is beyond the "Building Line." (20 feet from sidewalk.) Present fence is 9 feet from sidewalk & 8 feet tall.
1. Move the fence 11 feet further back. (Costs & Apperance)
2. Cut the fence to 4 feet in heigth (Have swimming pool)
3. Appeal for a variance from rules: (Only option)
Required for appeal:
$250.00 (Not refundable) for hearing. (already paid)
$40.00 for legal posting. (already paid)
I had to provide18 copies of all surveys, photo's, etc.
$2.50 for each copy mailed, including one for myself.
Still waiting for call to come in (again) and pay them.
If approved, I still have to pay for a permit ($60.00)
I have provided them with copies of Survey's that they have on their files.
One is from 5 years ago when I bought the house. Shows fence at its present location.
The other is from 1993 (18 years ago) when a permit was issued for installing the swimming pool. The survey actually used the fence as a measuring point to the pool location.
None of this makes any sence to me. All I'm trying to do is improve the looks of the fence, not build a new fence.
Any thought's, would be helpful. Texas Summer is almost upon us, and I've been told to not do any further work until I obtain a permit.
Early March, 2011 - Repairing & Staining existing fence - Approached by Building Inspector for Town of Flower Mound, TX. - Asked if I had a "Permit" - Said I'm just repairing my fence - He informed me that I needed to obtain a permit. ($60.00) - The next day I went to the Building Dept. -
Spent next 3 weeks, trying to satisify their requirement. (5-6 trips to their office, more emails than I can count.
Ruling from Supervisor: Part of my fence was errected by previousowners) & is beyond the "Building Line." (20 feet from sidewalk.) Present fence is 9 feet from sidewalk & 8 feet tall.
1. Move the fence 11 feet further back. (Costs & Apperance)
2. Cut the fence to 4 feet in heigth (Have swimming pool)
3. Appeal for a variance from rules: (Only option)
Required for appeal:
$250.00 (Not refundable) for hearing. (already paid)
$40.00 for legal posting. (already paid)
I had to provide18 copies of all surveys, photo's, etc.
$2.50 for each copy mailed, including one for myself.
Still waiting for call to come in (again) and pay them.
If approved, I still have to pay for a permit ($60.00)
I have provided them with copies of Survey's that they have on their files.
One is from 5 years ago when I bought the house. Shows fence at its present location.
The other is from 1993 (18 years ago) when a permit was issued for installing the swimming pool. The survey actually used the fence as a measuring point to the pool location.
None of this makes any sence to me. All I'm trying to do is improve the looks of the fence, not build a new fence.
Any thought's, would be helpful. Texas Summer is almost upon us, and I've been told to not do any further work until I obtain a permit.
I'm a bit confused on this myself. Go to the MuniCode WEB site at Home, select Texas, then select Flower Mound. Go to Chapter 14, "Buildings and Building Regulations", and then to section 14-542, Perimeter fence standards. First off Flower Mound does require permits for erecting a new fence and generally when major repairs are performed to certain items (such as fences) they would most likely require permits for that as well. When a permit is obtained as required for major work then the building codes, and generally the municipal codes, will require that the new work, or substantial repairs/improvements, conform to all of the current codes and requirements. One of those requirements is for fences to be set back the 20' they are quoting you in your description.
According to Flower Mounds own regulations the fence must be 6' - 8' in height. As shown there they do allow a less than 5' fence to be located in the setback area with appropriate approvals. What I am confused on are you trying to obtain approval for a greater than 5' height fence in the required 20' setback area? If so then the chances of approval are slim to none for that type of variance as Flower Mound, like all other cities, is trying to maintain some uniformity in building requirements.
As for the confusion over "repairing the fence" and "not build a new fence", did the fence repairs fall into the "maintenance" description in the ordinance? If so then Flower Mound might have considered that more than just a case of minor repairs and is requiring the permit to perform substantial repairs/replacements. In the case of permitted work it would not matter how the original work was performed as the new work would need to conform to the existing codes and requirements.
Hopefully that helps some to better understand municipal code requirements? If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.
Thanks for input. - I was willing to otain a permit for repairing fence - Problem's began when the city objected to portion of fence that was errected inside the 20 foot building line. - They can not claim that they were not aware of the placement of the fence, since 2 surveys were approved (one resulting in issuance of a permit for swimming pool) that showed fence in its present position. It only became a problem, when I attempted to obtain a permit.
Ron
In answer to your question - The rest of the fence enclosing our backyard is 8 feet tall. - I don't want to lower fence to 4 feet (As Christle pointed out) every child in my neighborhood would be jumping over at night to swim, and I would be liable. - Don't want to move fence 11 feet further back, it would be a great expence, would expose 11 feet of my "Back" 8 foot fence (Which the City indicated is OK because that is a "Back Fence") Our home is situated on a 45 degree curve in the roadway. Although the fence in question is on the "Side" of our home, the City is calling it a "Front" fence.
If you look at satellite picture of our property, it might help expain my problem.
Sounds like the permitting bureaucracy in Flower Mound is even worse then in Austin.
From my experience with our city, it doesn't matter that they overlooked the fence in previous site plan submittals, if it does not comply with code they can make you change it to bring it into compliance. It does not matter that it was shown on an approved site plan it a code violation is discovered later, it still has to be brought up to code. Nothing is grandfathered in.
In Austin where I live, a permit is not required if the fence is 6' tall or less, and no permit is required to repair it. More then 6' tall a permit is required, and for any hieght one still has to comply with the building set back lines on the front property line and side property line if the lot is on a corner. In your case your lot is not on a corner so much as it is on a sweeping curve. If the lot is on a true corner, the side property line set back is usually less then the front property setback. In your case I can see how they would consider all of that street frontage to be the front property line. Typically the subdivision plat for your property will show the location of the building setback line. A good property survey will also.
You can request a variance and there is a possibility they will grant it, if none of your neighbors object to it, but no guarantees. Variations are often granted in Austin for fences over 6' tall when they are to protect a swimming pool. You can see in google maps that there are several fences set up closer then 20' from the front property line near you on Spring Meadow Lane. Those are examples where the houses clearly sit on a corner and face a different street front. The same is true over at the intersection of Buckeye Drive and Buckey Court.
Even if you had not been doing any repair work to the fence, the code officials could have made you change the fence if any neighbor had complained and brought it to their attention.
In answer to your question - The rest of the fence enclosing our backyard is 8 feet tall. - I don't want to lower fence to 4 feet (As Christle pointed out) every child in my neighborhood would be jumping over at night to swim, and I would be liable. - Don't want to move fence 11 feet further back, it would be a great expence, would expose 11 feet of my "Back" 8 foot fence (Which the City indicated is OK because that is a "Back Fence") Our home is situated on a 45 degree curve in the roadway. Although the fence in question is on the "Side" of our home, the City is calling it a "Front" fence.
If you look at satellite picture of our property, it might help expain my problem.
3903 Willow Run Flower Mound, TX 75028
Ron
The codes and requirements can not take into account every situation which is a realistic thing to understand. As a result the codes and requirements provide the local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ, building and codes departments) to make calls as they see fit for the better of everyone rather than just one.
However having said that I checked the aerial and quite frankly I have to agree with you on this one! Had it been that front facing fence (same plane as the front of the home) then I would agree with the AHJ. What is also ridiculous moving it back would be your neighbor to the rear would not have to. That just adds to less uniformity in the fence lines.
I am not a licensed Code Official (by the State of Texas) and could only offer my opinion. As I read the requirement I expect the intent of the 20' set back is to prevent homeowners from completely enclosing their properties with an 8' fence. Some would and some wouldn't but that arrangement only makes the neighborhood look like compounds rather than homes. Having the shorter 4' fence in the 20' set back would somewhat prevent that "compound" appearance.
If it was my issue I would approach it this way. I would research when the 20' set back rule was first implemented. I would also find out when the permit requirement for fences was first implemented. You would most likely have to go back in the city minutes to see when it was brought forth to the City Council for consideration and adoption. Some times these minutes, and additionally submitted documents, will outline the intent(s) for the changes. They might also define what the "front" of the home is. While you are searching the city minutes I would also look for possible variances that might have been submitted and approved by previous owner(s) regarding the fence. Typically variances are brought up to the City Council for approvals. I would also perform a full permit search for the home to see when all fence work had been previously performed.
You might find enough information in this to display the fence had already been previously approved in its current location and possibly even a variance approval if one was ever requested. Also keep an eye around 1996 when the pool was installed for any requirements during the pool install for repairing or replacing the fence. It might have been part of that permit work. I would expect that the fence had to be removed to bring in the equipment and materials for the pool. If the 20' setback and/or fence permitting requirements were prior to any other permitted work on the fence and pool then it could help display the fence in its current location had actually been approved previously.
Another potential is to use aerial mapping and see if there is another newer home with your same conditions. You can run a permit search and see if their fence was approved. If nothing else it can help strengthen your case.
Beyond that if you can't find any supporting information it could be an uphill battle since the issue is being left to the judgment call of the Codes and Building Inspection department. It is unfortunate that you got the "unluck of the draw" for those who are making this call. Have you discussed this with the Chief Building Official (CBO) who is the head honcho over those departments? Do you know or have you spoken to any of the City Council members about this yet?
Let us know what happens as it can be a lesson no matter how it turns out. I do hope it turns out in your favor though!
I would like to thank everyone for their input. You obviously took the time to render an opinion based on research and infrormation as you see it.
In one day you have changed my way of approaching my problem. Until today I felt that I was a "Victim" of some Building Inspector, and the Town of Flower Mound Buiding Department. I believed that these were just Bureacucates trying to justify their existance, and get more money.
I'm sure that I would have attended the Appeal "Board of Adjustment" Hearing with my request for a "Variance" with the wrong attitude, which would have increased the likelyhood of an unfavorable decision.
I still feel that I should not have to pay for obtaining the "Variance." To use an analogy: If I wanted to contest my "Property Taxes" I could do so without paying the County of Denton any fees.
I am still waiting for notication of the date of the hearing. I will be sure to post the outcome, or if encounter further problems.
Thank's again, Ron
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Fence
