Status of Anti-gropiing (TSA Security Patdowns) bill in Texas.... (merged threads) (Earth: live, move)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

Even besides the supremacy clause the interstate commerce clause would apply. And no I don't think have separate inspection stations for in-state and out-of-state flights would be the right answer. This is just another example of Texas hubris, without much forethought.

Maybe, maybe not. But let's challenge it and at least see what the courts say. Texas hubris? Well, if you call restrictions on sexual assault at random, under the guise of protecting the public, then high time the state excercised it. Our Texas forefathers would have never stood for anything less.

But anyway, time to get to work for now. Y'all all have a good day! God Bless Texas!

[mco65]

How is Texas' new law or attitude for that matter much different than California's attitude towards the feds and their medical marijuana law?

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Maybe, maybe not. But let's challenge it and at least see what the courts say. Texas hubris? Well, if you call restrictions on sexual assault at random, under the guise of protecting the public, then high time the state excercised it. Our Texas forefathers would have never stood for anything less.

But anyway, time to get to work for now. Y'all all have a good day! God Bless Texas!

Times and circumstances change dude. An appeal to what people would have "stood for" 165 years ago is pretty irrelevant (IMHO).

[doctorjef]

TexasReb, the whingers in all states are simply that IMO. Besides, the electorate allowed Mr Big Texas President George W Bush to turn America into a police state anyway. There are things going on that are far more egregious than over-zealous pat downs, yet few get upset about them because they can't see such measures and don't feel affected by them, e.g. the complete and total collection and permanent storage by the NSA of all electronic communications in America without any legal warrant to do so. If someone gets offended by what they perceive as groping, let them file suit against the employee in question and the TSA/US government. Texas posturing on these matters is an empty joke.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by RedJacket

An astounding Department of Justice threat to cancel airline flights to and from Texas, in addition to underhanded lobbying by TSA representatives, has killed efforts in the state to pass HB 1937, a bill that would have made invasive pat downs by TSA agents a felony.

» Financial Terrorism: TSA Holds Texas Flights Hostage Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Where's my Nazi party armband?

Has Alex Jones still not figured out his bombastic blathering and completely moronic "aliens are taking over Earth" crap does damage to the causes he supports? The guy's a total crackpot.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Maybe, maybe not. But let's challenge it and at least see what the courts say. Texas hubris? Well, if you call restrictions on sexual assault at random, under the guise of protecting the public, then high time the state excercised it. Our Texas forefathers would have never stood for anything less.

But anyway, time to get to work for now. Y'all all have a good day! God Bless Texas!

If this is sexual assault than when I go to the doctor and he checks my colon it is even more so. There is nothing sexual about it if its done in a professional manner, the way cops and prison guards have been doing for eons. Let me try to get you away from your puritanical mindset:
nudity does not equal pornography and touching does not equal sex.

[doctorjef]

Maybe the problem is that touching by the feds is always interpreted as "bad touching". You know, I fly pretty frequently, including overseas, and haven't ever encountered anything objectionable. People with attitude get attitude in return. And the TSA employees you encounter are largely going to have been hired locally, ergo if you've complaints about TSA staff in Texas, chances are that those TSA people are going to be Texans. What might that say?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

If this is sexual assault than when I go to the doctor and he checks my colon it is even more so. There is nothing sexual about it if its done in a professional manner, the way cops and prison guards have been doing for eons.

These are some of the most ridiculous analogies I have ever heard any one give. If you go to the doctor to have your colon examined, then you give permission to have a certain part of your anatomy explored in a professional manner and for a good reason. Now, if the doctor -- for no professional reason -- reaches around to uhhhh...fondle lower frontal parts of your anatomy? Then wouldn't you say that is a sexual assault?

Also, police can pat down suspects if they have reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed or that their safety depends upon it. BUT...they may have to prove it in a court of law that they had such cause. On the other hand, no such rules govern what is increasingly becoming the Homeland Security Gestapo; they can do what they want and never have to justify it.

Prison guards? The men they subject to body searches are prisoners of the state who have been convicted of crimes and have, by due process of law, been deprived of their freedoms. Far as I know, those Americans wanting to board an airline flight have done no such thing.

The point is, and the objections that have been raised all over the country, is that many of the gropings by airport security people are not only not done in a professional manner...they are done for no valid reason to begin with.

And another reminder -- in case you missed it -- is that the law specifically exempts those searches which are done in a professional manner and stem from circumstances where there is clear reason to believe the subject is a potential threat; and that they are subject to the same rules of proving such that police and prison guards, for instance, are. There is nothing in this proposed bill that the latter are not also subject to. But the feds, according to some, are exempt.

But of course, since political correctness rules, then young women must be subject to random searches just the same as Arab men with one-way tickets. And THAT is where the whole power abuse stems from. No surprise that some of those security personel -- too many in fact -- take full advantage of it in order to get some cheap jollies.

Let me try to get you away from your puritanical mindset: nudity does not equal pornography and touching does not equal sex.

Moderator cut: off topic/personal nudity does not equal pornograpy and that touching does not always equal sex. Moderator cut: off topic/personal

But ok...*getting over laughing fit here* Go ahead and try and get me over a "puritanical mindset"...meanwhile I will try and give you a little lesson in Classical Freedom 101 (fair trade, reckon? ) Do/did they offer that in your high school/undergrad courses?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Times and circumstances change dude. An appeal to what people would have "stood for" 165 years ago is pretty irrelevant (IMHO).

And not often for the better, bud (IMHO). In fact, to counter, an appeal to "progressive" is pretty irrelevent if it means relinquishing classic notions of freedom. One can progress off the end of the cliff...

What those guys 165 years ago are the ones who laid the foundation for such freedom. It is not irrelevant at all unless one dismisses them as of no consequence and unworthy of protecting and keeping.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

TexasReb, the whingers in all states are simply that IMO. Besides, the electorate allowed Mr Big Texas President George W Bush to turn America into a police state anyway. There are things going on that are far more egregious than over-zealous pat downs, yet few get upset about them because they can't see such measures and don't feel affected by them, e.g. the complete and total collection and permanent storage by the NSA of all electronic communications in America without any legal warrant to do so. If someone gets offended by what they perceive as groping, let them file suit against the employee in question and the TSA/US government. Texas posturing on these matters is an empty joke.

Hell, Doc, PLEASE don't put me in the position of defending Bush, because it wont work! LOL Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for Bush II in this -- and many other -- arenas. He bears as much responsibility as anyone for the monster created. On a related tangent, I would not be at all surprised that it was true he once screamed at a staff member who told him certain parts of the Homeland Security Act were unconstitutional, 'Dont talk to me about the Constitution; it is nothing but a gotdammed piece of paper."

Yep, I can believe that, for sure. Not all of us conservatives are Bush fans nor even Republicans.

Anyway, you know good and well a suit filed would be quickly dismissed since the DOJ is the one protecting this practice to begin with, and it would never be prosecuted. No problem in trying, but might as well try and catch the wind.

Try and trivialize it if you want, Doc, but it is more than just a few instances. Much more. It is something that has many on both sides of the political spectrum very concerned and high time something was confronted.

Maybe the problem is that touching by the feds is always interpreted as "bad touching". You know, I fly pretty frequently, including overseas, and haven't ever encountered anything objectionable. People with attitude get attitude in return. And the TSA employees you encounter are largely going to have been hired locally, ergo if you've complaints about TSA staff in Texas, chances are that those TSA people are going to be Texans. What might that say?

Well, maybe the reason is that they didn't find you worth groping! Sorry, my friend, couldn't resist that one.

But seriously, there are just too many instances of it to think this is much ado about nothing. You seem all to willing to excuse it -- for reaons we might can discuss later -- but would likely (and well so) be the first to raise hell if it involved some Texas state trooper, right? And I suspect there is an certain ideological reason for that...

What might it say if they are Texans? Then I'd say they oughta know Texas law. Prosecute them and tighten up background checks on those who are hired (which is another problem...plus some of the TSA guards can barely speak English, from other complaints )

Oh well, Time for lunch, and get ready for the graduation tonight so probably won't be back on today. See all y'all in a day or so! Everyone have a good one.