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did these Wasps move in from out of state much like many of today's hipsters and Yuppies?
I lived in Chicago at the time. It wasn't a place that attracted Wasps that I recall.
Really, there were no jewish people in banking or accounting, or brokerages back then?
This was Chicago but suspect NYC as well. Not too many. Some may have been employed by brokerage firms that were owned by Jewish people. Jews may have been in banking or accounting but at lower levels. There was extreme prejduice. That is why you would see so many Jewish doctors and lawyers and business owners in those days; any place where they could be their own boss without having to apply for jobs where they were not welcome. Don't forget, jobs like banking and brokerages also included memberships and country clubs in the executive world. African Americans and Jews need not apply. I think Mad Men brings this out with the one guy they hire who is Jewish. I can't recall his name at the moment but they don't let him forget he is Jewish and for that matter, he doesn't let them forget either.
Did suburbs exist back then?
Sure. After WWII, they began to grow like crazy due to the housing shortage in the cities. They continued to flourish.
I think that Mad Men is one of the few shows produced by Hollywood that gets it right.
did these Wasps move in from out of state much like many of today's hipsters and Yuppies?
Really, there were no jewish people in banking or accounting, or brokerages back then?
Did suburbs exist back then?
The WASPs in Westchester did not move in. They were there first. If you read my post, I said that there were few (not zero) Jews in Big 8 accounting firms. No, there were not many Jews in the large brokerage firms and very few in high and mid level bank positions, despite the old anti-semetic stereotpes to the contrary. Suburbs became a phenomena after WWII in the 50s when returning GIs started having families and there was a desperate housing shortage. I would suggest reseaching the history of Levittown to understand the development of suburbs in the New York area. The Dick Van Dyke show took place in New Rochelle, Westchester and there are some references to what that area was like in the early 60s if you watch the re-runs. Don and Betty, I believe lived in Ossining, which was very WASPy.
To me the most striking thing about Mad Men is the treatment of the African Americans in the show. Major characters in the show are racist including the "oppressed" Caucasian women who you'd think would know better since they should know what it feels like to have limits put on you based on something you have no control over. I've always heard that the women's lib movement was about liberating white women only..but the show definitely drives that point home. Where does someone like Betty Draper's maid Carla fit into the women's rights movement? Or Dawn the secretary who was hired as the result of a joke?How is their experience of the time in any way relatable to Peggy's or Betty's? I see no common ground.
The Help gives you some idea, even though that story takes place in the south. Maybe, in the north everyone used the same bathroom, but the attitude was pretty much the same.
The other accurate depiction of African Americans are the scenes wtih the elevator operator. Remember the episode about Admiral TVs and Pete asks the elevator operator for his opinion.
Not only were women treated like they were on Mad Men in the 60s, but this was also continuing into the 70s. As a young woman in the workplace in the early 70s, sexism was rampant. I and many of my coworkers were sexually harassed by our bosses as well as male staff. Of course, we said nothing.
Also, these were the days before all of the protections that are in place today, such as ADA, etc. I had a a desk job one time that was so stressful, that I had to go to a chiropractor every day at lunch to have my neck and back worked on so I could continue working my job for the rest of the day. My chiropractor wrote a letter to my supervisor telling him I wasn't to work over 8 hours a day because my spine was becoming deformed because I sat for 10-12 hours a day in the same position. My boss's exact words after he read the letter: "you have a job to do." And that was that. Nice.
I thought you were going to tell about how your male boss would come over to massage your neck and shoulders every day. Just the memory of that one gives me a PTSD attack.
The WASPs in Westchester did not move in. They were there first. If you read my post, I said that there were few (not zero) Jews in Big 8 accounting firms. No, there were not many Jews in the large brokerage firms and very few in high and mid level bank positions, despite the old anti-semetic stereotpes to the contrary. Suburbs became a phenomena after WWII in the 50s when returning GIs started having families and there was a desperate housing shortage. I would suggest reseaching the history of Levittown to understand the development of suburbs in the New York area. The Dick Van Dyke show took place in New Rochelle, Westchester and there are some references to what that area was like in the early 60s if you watch the re-runs. Don and Betty, I believe lived in Ossining, which was very WASPy.
I didn't mean to answer for you but it certainly sounds as if Chicago was very much like New York in those times. I would imagine every large city was pretty similar.
did these Wasps move in from out of state much like many of today's hipsters and Yuppies?
Really, there were no jewish people in banking or accounting, or brokerages back then?
America has always had its share of prejudice and discrimination. Although, I think because of institutions like a "free press" and "free speech" those problems have always been more public here. As such, they can be debated, be discussed and that has been key to gradually eliminating them.
There was considerable prejudice against Jews (antisemitism) after World War II in the USA. I suspect the prejudice was there before the war as well. I could suggest you look up an old Gregory Peck movie named "Gentleman's Agreement". It was produced about two years after World War II ended and in the story, Gregory Peck is a journalist who "goes underground" to report on this story. He finds a great deal of antisemitism that is hidden and that few non-Jews realize exists.
Today, the role of "private clubs" is often not understood in terms of securing employment connections and educational opportunities for individuals. Most people who land a good job today have superior educational credentials and work experience. Most people who obtain admission to an Ivy League University do so on the basis of SAT scores and grades.
This was not true in the era after World War II that lasted through most of the Sixties. Private clubs were places where the "important people" in a community gathered for meals and a drink. Anyone who was anyone in some areas belonged to these clubs. If you wanted a good job you had to participate and get to know the right people. No one seriously considered the idea that women should be allowed to belong. Minorities were kept out of these clubs by practices like "black balling". This is a way of saying that clubs had an admissions policy where all members would vote in secret on new members. It only took one vote to keep someone who had applied to join the club from belonging. There was always at least one person who would vote to keep a minority out of any club in the country. So, these were exclusive domains for white people or "WASPS" as you called them.
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Did suburbs exist back then?
The suburbs were a direct outgrowth of (1) the housing shortage following World War II; (2) Government backed VA loans to former servicemen and veterans; and (3) the building of interstate or superhighways.
My parents returned from World War II and went to college where they met and got married. Mom is still alive and has very poignant stories about the housing shortage following the war. When my sister was born, they went from landlord to landlord to find an apartment to rent and were rejected time and time again because the landlord didn't want a small child living in their rental housing. Many times, my mother was reduced to tears. The landlords had such power because there was a huge demand for housing after the war as veterans returned from the war, got married, and started families.
A poster above referred to "Levitt Town". This indeed is a great story. A builder realized that if he could mass produce houses that he could provide more homes, more quickly for this population. His mass production techniques enabled him to keep costs down and keep the homes affordable. Soon, these building techniques were replicated all around the country. Even so, it took at least ten years to resolve the housing shortage that occurred because of the war. The loans made it possible for veterans to buy the houses.
Finally, Congress passed the Interstate Highway Act in 1956. The building of superhighways with special "belt routes" around major cities made it possible for people to live in suburbs and work in cities. Some people believe the superhighways were the "ruination" of big cities. However, the movement to suburbs actually began before this legislation was passed. The superhighways did facilitate the change though.
I'm starting to understand why I like "Mad Men" as much as I do.
I am really loving this discussion. I was born in 1965 in the South, and it was still a radical notion when I was a child that a woman might be anything other than wife, secretary, nurse, or teacher.
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Originally Posted by markg91359
Today, the role of "private clubs" is often not understood in terms of securing employment connections and educational opportunities for individuals. Most people who land a good job today have superior educational credentials and work experience. Most people who obtain admission to an Ivy League University do so on the basis of SAT scores and grades.
This was not true in the era after World War II that lasted through most of the Sixties. Private clubs were places where the "important people" in a community gathered for meals and a drink. Anyone who was anyone in some areas belonged to these clubs. If you wanted a good job you had to participate and get to know the right people. No one seriously considered the idea that women should be allowed to belong. Minorities were kept out of these clubs by practices like "black balling". This is a way of saying that clubs had an admissions policy where all members would vote in secret on new members. It only took one vote to keep someone who had applied to join the club from belonging. There was always at least one person who would vote to keep a minority out of any club in the country. So, these were exclusive domains for white people or "WASPS" as you called them.
While other avenues have opened, private clubs are still alive & thriving in many places. The two oldest clubs here are still almost exclusively white, and the families of members rely on connections & networking formed there to get their kids into the best colleges & employed at the best places once they graduate. The good-ol-boy network hasn't ended!
Yes and back in the day, some colleges "affirmative action" for Jews was an unspoken "quota system." Certain colleges would allow for a certain number of Jews enrollment and that was it. The feeling was it would up their scholastic standings. It was felt that the only reason women went to college for for one degree and that was for their MRS.
My pediatrician, a woman, was the only female in her medical school graduation class. She made it but it was tough. The only speciality she could go into where she would be assured patients was pediatrics and she really didn't like kids all that much.
My parents had the same problem with apartment rentals in the city as markg91359 describes. I had two sisters. I remember one time a prospective landlord told my dad he would only rent to a family with two kids. Out of frustration from apartment hunting dragging three whiny kids around all day long my dad asked him "Which one do you want me to drown?"
My dad had a very sarcastic sense of humor.
We are kind of getting off the subject of "Mad Men" but I wonder how many older people like myself watch it while nodding their heads going "I remember."
Apparently the show highlights, the relations between men and women. But I am particularly interested in how the different races are portrayed and treated. Does Mad Men offer an accurate depiction? I have not seen much of the show.
Does the show mostly show just white middle class characters? Does it show the civil rights movement? How are the Jews portrayed? What about Asians, or Hispanics?
I'm 64 years old. Therefore, I was between the ages of 12 and 21 during the 1960s. I got married in 1970, shortly before my 22nd birthday. In my opinion, the show is very, very close to what I can remember life in the 60s as being. I seriously never cease to be amazed at how accurate the details of 1960s life are.
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