Puerto rico to decide status............... (apartment, crime, appliances)
U.S. TerritoriesPuerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
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Hawaii was an independent country (the Kingdom of Hawaii) until American sugarcane plantation owners overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893 and established a 'republic' under "President" Sanford Dole. In 1898 this 'republic' voted to be annexed as a US territory (much like Puerto Rico is currently) with yeah, you guessed it - Sanford Dole as the first governor. After World War II the Hawaiian statehood movement gained widespread support and after 13 years and 3 referendums Congress finally approved Hawaiian statehood in 1959. I believe Hawaii was always an official incorporated territory from 1898 until 1959 but I could be wrong. Many of the same arguments that people used against Hawaiian statehood are also currently being used against Puerto Rico.
As I have said before, Puerto Rico should either become the 51st state or become an incorporated territory so Puerto Ricans can have their full rights as US citizens while still retaining the present level of autonomy. I find it abhorrent that Puerto Ricans, Guamanians, Samoans, etc can go off to war but are not entitled to vote for the person who sends them off to war, or even full representation in the Senate and the House of Representatives.
I think that if statehood can get say 65-70% in November's referendum they could get Congress to approve it. The ball's in your court Puerto Ricans! If you vote for it then it will happen ... but it needs more than a simple majority. Being that it's statehood vs independence I think getting 65% should be easy, I mean it's pretty obvious that it was set up to ensure that statehood would win by a big margin ...
Thank you for your summary about Hawaiian statehood. Looks like these plantation owners shoved statehood down people's throat.
I also think that, if the conditions are right, 65% should be easy to reach, but I think it will take nothing less than 80% for Congress to actually do something. 60%-70% would mean than around a million people do not want statehood. That's too many people to force statehood on.
Thank you for your summary about Hawaiian statehood. Looks like these plantation owners shoved statehood down people's throat.
I also think that, if the conditions are right, 65% should be easy to reach, but I think it will take nothing less than 80% for Congress to actually do something. 60%-70% would mean than around a million people do not want statehood. That's too many people to force statehood on.
Im torn on how Congress should interpret the results. IMO a simple 2/3 majority (roughly 66%) should suffice but then like you say that still leaves a million people who mainly are in favor of retaining the status quo Territorial Commonwealth.
I forget which state it was but the margin of votes for statehood was only 150 votes more than those who voted against statehood. Congress still accepted it. I think it's hypocritical that independence and the status quo territorial commonwealth require only a 50% to to be considered a majority but statehood would require an absurd 80-90% which is next to impossible.
150!? Wow, I guess Congress really wanted that territory to be a state. This Puerto Rico's case is a special one I guess. After 100+ years of US occupation, we still haven't assimilated American culture completely. Sure we got cable, movies, clothes, and many of other stuff; but the mainstream culture, like the language or a sense of belonging haven't really gripped the island. People still look at me weird when I tell them: "I would like PR to be the 51st state". Specially my elder brother. However, in the end, if forced, they would vote statehood without blinking.
There is more fear of independence than statehood. Let's face it, the mayority of PRs do not believe an independent PR can thrive.
150!? Wow, I guess Congress really wanted that territory to be a state. This Puerto Rico's case is a special one I guess. After 100+ years of US occupation, we still haven't assimilated American culture completely. Sure we got cable, movies, clothes, and many of other stuff; but the mainstream culture, like the language or a sense of belonging haven't really gripped the island. People still look at me weird when I tell them: "I would like PR to be the 51st state". Specially my elder brother. However, in the end, if forced, they would vote statehood without blinking.
There is more fear of independence than statehood. Let's face it, the mayority of PRs do not believe an independent PR can thrive.
If statehood is your dream then never lose hope because one day it will happen. The only reason it dident happen in the past is because the Commonwealth option was included in 1967, 1993, and 1998. This November it's just the reasonably popular statehood vs 2 forms of independence neither of which are remotely close to popular. There's a good chance the island could become the 51st state as soon as 2013.
I for one can't wait to welcome Puerto Rico as the 51st state.
I live in Michigan and have never been to PR, but from reading this thread I can see that some people who live in PR do not see themselves as Americans. In fact refrences to PR independence and the American occupation tell me some see PR as being a US colony under occupation. If PR is ever to be a state then the proper attitude should be that they are choosing to be Americans first and Puerto Ricans second, just as Texans are Americans first and Texans second. State pride, and the idea of states rights is a big part of our nation. The political power of states is enshrined in the bill of rights as the 10th amendment. Each state adds its qualities to the greatness of the entire nation. PR would be one of the most unique states in the US with its Spanish language and Carribean culture, and most people in the other 50 states would be happy if PR chooses statehood. I cant think of a better addition to our nation than Puerto Rico. I just hope that if statehood is chosen that it is chosen because the citizens of PR really want to be Americans. It is all up to Puerto Ricans to decide this huge question in the election this fall. If PR chooses independence I dont believe the nay sayers that claim it would not make it. PR is fully capable of being independent if it chooses that option. There are many small island nations around the world that do just fine.
I live in Michigan and have never been to PR, but from reading this thread I can see that some people who live in PR do not see themselves as Americans. In fact refrences to PR independence and the American occupation tell me some see PR as being a US colony under occupation. If PR is ever to be a state then the proper attitude should be that they are choosing to be Americans first and Puerto Ricans second, just as Texans are Americans first and Texans second. State pride, and the idea of states rights is a big part of our nation. The political power of states is enshrined in the bill of rights as the 10th amendment. Each state adds its qualities to the greatness of the entire nation. PR would be one of the most unique states in the US with its Spanish language and Carribean culture, and most people in the other 50 states would be happy if PR chooses statehood. I cant think of a better addition to our nation than Puerto Rico. I just hope that if statehood is chosen that it is chosen because the citizens of PR really want to be Americans. It is all up to Puerto Ricans to decide this huge question in the election this fall. If PR chooses independence I dont believe the nay sayers that claim it would not make it. PR is fully capable of being independent if it chooses that option. There are many small island nations around the world that do just fine.
You are aware that Alaska and Hawaii have active independence movements right? In fact, the Alaskan independence movement actually elected a governor in the 1980s? - something that has never happened in Puerto Rico.
The Puerto Rican independence activists are a very loud but very small minority. Since the 1950s they have never been able to get more than 6% of the vote in any election or referendum.
You are aware that Alaska and Hawaii have active independence movements right? In fact, the Alaskan independence movement actually elected a governor in the 1980s? - something that has never happened in Puerto Rico.
The Puerto Rican independence activists are a very loud but very small minority. Since the 1950s they have never been able to get more than 6% of the vote in any election or referendum.
Yes I am aware of that fact, secession movements have always existed in the US. The point of my post is that I would hope the people of PR dont vote for statehood simply because they feel they have too. If they choose statehood they should be choosing it because they want to be Americans. If they do not want to be Americans then they should choose to be independent or remain in thier current status. Statehood is a big step and commitment to the rest of the country. Personally I hope they do choose statehood, but only if its for the right reasons.
Do we Americans living in actual US states get any say in this. I guess the only way is thru our Congress. I will petition my Congressman to vote against statehood for PR. I believe most people I know here would do the same. PR is not America. I've been there and it was foreign. Why should we allow the balkanization of our country. If after 100 years English is barely spoken by the public, how in the heck can they be part of this country. I have been there. Quebecois in Canada speak better English than Puerto Ricans because they live in a majority English speaking country. Why don't Puerto Ricans after all these years? Because they don't feel American and the culture there is tied up with Spain and the Carib. I'd love to see a poll of Americans on this issue. When you realize that every Congressman and Senator elected there will be a hard left leaning Democratic for the far distant future, the current Repub House of Rep will never vote for it.
Do we Americans living in actual US states get any say in this. I guess the only way is thru our Congress. I will petition my Congressman to vote against statehood for PR. I believe most people I know here would do the same. PR is not America. I've been there and it was foreign. Why should we allow the balkanization of our country. If after 100 years English is barely spoken by the public, how in the heck can they be part of this country. I have been there. Quebecois in Canada speak better English than Puerto Ricans because they live in a majority English speaking country. Why don't Puerto Ricans after all these years? Because they don't feel American and the culture there is tied up with Spain and the Carib. I'd love to see a poll of Americans on this issue. When you realize that every Congressman and Senator elected there will be a hard left leaning Democratic for the far distant future, the current Repub House of Rep will never vote for it.
Exactly why I think Congress will hardly allow PR to become a state. It doesn't matter how many referendums we have, only Congress has the power to make any real chance on the status. I don't feel offended when you say that you don't want PR to be state and I understand your reasons. Can't blame you, the reality is, as you say, that PR feels foreign compared to the rest of US. The fact that after 100 years English is barely spoken here attest to how far PR is to feel like US.
PRs will mostly vote for statehood out of fear of independence, not because they feel Americans. This is important because, after statehood is completed, there is no going back; thus, people will feel like the choice was shoved down their throats.
Personally, I like being a US citizen and feel American first and PR second. I'm moving out on the first chance I get and leave my second-class citizenship behind.
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This Puerto Rico's case is a special one I guess. After 100+ years of US occupation, we still haven't assimilated American culture completely. Sure we got cable, movies, clothes, and many of other stuff; but the mainstream culture, like the language or a sense of belonging haven't really gripped the island. People still look at me weird when I tell them: "I would like PR to be the 51st state". Specially my elder brother. 
